You Coached Your Employee and They Don’t Follow Up. Now What?

0:15 - I knew you were going to come up with something. I just knew it.

0:17 - Kimberly, what happened is happening? What are you doing, man?

0:23 - I just had a really good day at work, had some really good meetings.

0:26 - Very productive. It what made it productive. What was it?

0:29 - Well, you know what it is. I think you've passed some things on to people, and you've let them have the ownership of it, and you are scared to do that because they're not going to do it as good as me. And they do it, and they're doing it well, and customers are all happy. That's what was happening today.

0:49 - So you felt like, I have passed on some ownership, some knowledge, and I'm seeing them cook with gas.

0:55 - Yeah. And I'm just super, super proud of them. So it was just a really good day with my peeps.

1:01 - Good job. Yeah.

1:02 - How was your day?

1:03 - It was good. I felt pretty productive, too. I had a busy day, as normal, but there were some major things that I needed to get done, and I had a little bit of quiet time. That was very helpful.

1:13 - That's always nice.

1:13 - Close my door, get some big meaty things done, and I got all of the things that I was hoping to get done today done, so excellent. So I want to know, what are we here talking about, Kimberly? Because we are back. This is extra shot of leadership, podcast. Those of you who are listening, thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah, I just want to know, Kimberly, what do you want to talk about?

1:33 - Well, you know that last conversation we had about coaching?

1:36 - How long ago was that? I think that was a couple of weeks ago. Yes, I remember that. Yes.

1:40 - People are asking, are you all coming back? Yes, we are. We're coming back. Well, you cut me off and you're like, we got to go. And I was like, I have another question.

1:47 - You have another question?

1:48 - Yeah.

1:48 - Is this your question or somebody else's question?

1:50 - No, it's just listen right off the top of this nagging over here.

1:54 - All right.

1:54 - Yeah, right off the top. And so we were talking about coaching and having a follow up conversation on coaching. But my question is so let's just. Say because I think we had that first coaching conversation and you gave them some go dos. Yeah. And you had a follow up conversation. You were checking in on the go dos. Yeah.

2:12 - Or they were checking in.

2:13 - They were checking in right now. I'm like, so what if you gave them some go do's and they don't follow up? They're like, flying under the radar, dodging you like, please don't look over here at me. Okay, so what I want to know.

2:27 - Is those are some of my favorites.

2:32 - Yes. I want to hear about why. So can you tell me why? Why is it your favorite?

2:36 - I'm teasing. You know what? Okay, so let's just set the stage real quick.

2:41 - Yes.

2:42 - As a leader, we've had some sort of coaching discussion with one of our employees, and in that conversation, there were some assignments. Consider going and doing this might help you and your performance. Have you considered this? And there was some commitment in there.

2:56 - From the other yeah, it's a good idea. I'm going to go do that.

2:58 - I think that's the best thing I've ever heard. Okay. And they're going to go off and do it. And how long has it been? A month later? Two months, three months. They just haven't come back.

3:05 - Yeah, a month and a half, two months.

3:07 - It is really kind of my favorite because it allows you to see who's really invested in their growth and development.

3:17 - Okay. I would agree with that. I can't say that's my favorite, but I do see where you can tell who's in it to win it and who is, like, giving you some lip service.

3:26 - Yeah. In that moment, they're looking at you and they're like, this is the best thing ever. Thank you for spending this time with me. Right. And they're telling you all the things that they should be telling you, but there's no follow up. Yeah. I like those conversations when they don't follow up. And I don't mean that sarcastically. I'm sincere, because now, as a leader, I know who really cares about their progress or who cares about their growth and their development and who's invested.

3:56 - Yes.

3:57 - And I think sometimes there's a lot of people who want to help them grow. Right. It's like, I want you to help me grow. Please help me grow. Hey, can you help me grow? What about me? I'm not getting enough. So I think there's a lot of people who want that growth in development, but really, at the end of the day, is everybody interested in doing the work that it takes to grow? No, that's okay when you have something wrong with that.

4:20 - Yeah. And when you have a large organization or a lot of people reporting to you, it's hard to spread the wealth. Right. So this way, it just really helps you prioritize where are you going to be spending your time?

4:29 - It does. It helps you get real clear on who's really invested and who's not. And I'm still going to help those who are not. I don't want to leave that impression, but it really does give you a sense of where you're going to spend your energy. Right. And we only have a limited amount of time and energy every single day. We have work to do. We have customers to respond to. We have employees to help move, work forward and grow and develop and through the process. And so it does it helps you to know where you're going to focus your energy. So I do I don't mind those conversations, but I want to know your perspective. So you've given some coaching to somebody or some sort of assignment, some go do some recommendations. They don't follow up. What are you doing? Are you paying attention? You're like, the calendar is on the wall, and are you crossing each day off yeah. With a red marker, mentally good.

5:17 - I am. Because my question for you I'll just answer my own question. Yeah, because my question for you is they haven't followed up. It's been some time, and you both know, like, I know it's been enough time that you should be following up with me. And they probably know that, but I see them kind of dodging me, and with that look on their face, like, I really hope she doesn't ask me.

5:41 - Don't bring it up. Don't come over here. Anything, please.

5:42 - And so my question for you was, do you go chase them down? Do you follow up? Do you put it on their calendar?

5:49 - I do not follow up. Now, I think what is important here is level in the organization. Right. I think as you are higher up in the organization, in any organization right. You start to manage senior manager, director, whatever the levels are, you're moving up in an organization. I don't think you're chasing people who are in manager and senior manager director level roles. I think by the time they're in those levels, they are owning their own development, and they should be following up. There should be some sort of recap on their part. Now, entry level employees, I think there's probably a follow up on the part of the boss, the leader that's due. What do you think? Okay, well, I would agree with that.

6:41 - I hadn't really thought about it in terms of levels, because I think for the majority of my career, it's been individual contributors that I've been following up with. Yeah, right. Because for me, I'm like, I am going to follow up with them, but I can see where, as a higher level leader, you're going to have some rhythm right. With your supervisor, unless you're new to an organization. And then I think if that level is not following up and I'm the next level supervisor, I would be following up because I'm like, we have an issue here, and I need some things, and I need you to know I'm not kidding. I'm not just talking to hear myself talk. I'm serious. But for individual contributor level, I am following up.

7:23 - You're following up? I am. How long are you following up? 30 days, 60 days? Does it matter? Do you have a time frame that you're like, hey, where are you at?

7:33 - I think it depends on what it is. And what did we kind of establish in the beginning? Right. When we were having a conversation and there was some action items, and there was probably some conversation there of, hey, let's get back together in two weeks, four weeks, a month, or once a quarter, whatever that established timeframe was. It really does stick in my head when I start feeling that time, and I'm like, that's passed. I'm like, okay, I'm not just going to let them continue to fly under the radar. I am going to follow up and start asking some questions.

8:03 - Now, one little thing that I've heard you that I just want to tease out real quick is, is this a performance issue with this person or is this person doing a good job? And you know what? They just ask for some guidance in a certain area.

8:16 - Yes. I think either way, I'm following up. I think I'd probably follow up quicker. If it's a performance issue, okay, I stay on it. Right. Because as time goes by, you just have to restart that conversation. So I want to stay on that. But if it's a development thing and it's like it's not, that something they're.

8:33 - Going to learn overnight.

8:34 - Yeah, there's a longer time frame for that.

8:36 - So what happens? What are you doing? Are you setting a meeting with them? Are you talking to them directly? You catch them by surprise, like, hello, where have you been? Do you have an approach for how you call them out of the fog?

8:53 - Yes, if it's the first time, first.

8:57 - Offender, I like it. So you've had multiple?

8:59 - I have.

8:59 - All right.

9:00 - I've had it. I think I've had a lot of different variety of different situations, but for me, I do, I like to catch them at the copier in the bathroom or whatever.

9:11 - Even in the bathroom. The bathroom is not safe.

9:15 - There's no safe space around here. The water cooler, the break room, whatever. I'm catching them kind of nonchalant, like, hey, what's happening? Where you been? And see, busy. What's on your plate? And then I'll have some conversation back and forth. It might be impersonal, but then I'm going to lob it out there like, hey, where are we at with whatever. Hey, I want to catch up with you on XYZ.

9:35 - I really enjoyed that last conversation we had. I thought you did too.

9:40 - And they're like, so I'm going to still put it back in their court. I'm not going to put the time on your account. I'm still putting it back in your court. I still want you to follow up.

9:50 - What a good boss. I mean, you're just showing them how invested you are, and I love that. Right? You're not just letting them go and just saying, I gave you some things to think about, but you're like, no, I have some investment here. I really care about you, and I want you to be successful in whatever area it is. I love that.

10:08 - Yeah. Listen, true transparency, part of it is it's because I do want to give them the opportunity. I do want to see them grow. I do want to help them. But then there comes a point where it's really, for me, it's more about, okay, now I got a challenge.

10:28 - All right, you like the challenge?

10:29 - I do. Because I think there's conversations that you and I've had even about team members or whatever, and you're like, they're not going to do it. I'm like, oh, yes, they are.

10:37 - Oh, sure.

10:40 - I want to see them succeed. I want to see them do it. But I have some skin in the game over here. Like, oh, I got to get them to do it.

10:47 - Yeah.

10:48 - So it just depends on how the challenge of how far out can I go until I raise my hands, I'm like, okay, she was right.

10:59 - They're not going to change. So what happens? Most of them, 90% of them, they put their meeting on your calendar so that they can have a conversation with you.

11:08 - Yeah, I think the majority of them do. There's always one. Right? Okay. You can just tell they really don't want it. They say they do. They say they do in performance conversations, I really want to do this, or I want to. They really don't. And I think it just becomes apparent after such a long period of time or so many tries and like, oh, yeah, I'm going to do that. Right. I'm going to put that on your color. And, like, they don't they really don't want it.

11:36 - So you just let it go. What do you do?

11:39 - It depends.

11:40 - Okay.

11:40 - It depends on if I can let it go. So is it a skill or something that that person needs to have? It's dragging the team down. It's standing in the way of what we need to get done on our team.

11:52 - Yeah.

11:52 - Then, yeah, I'm going to have to do something different about that and get a little bit tougher, have a different conversation, maybe, I don't know, even find some place that they fit better or something like that. But if it isn't and it's just they just don't want to go grow. They're good at what they do, and it's okay. What they're doing is helpful for our organization and for our team. I'm like, okay, I'm going to let it be. I'm going to go spend my time over here on somebody else that's ready to grow.

12:19 - All right. What about you? I think what is most important about your comment is, are they in the way of progress of the team? And if they're in the way of progress of the team, absolutely. Even at higher levels within the organization. I'm going to pull them into my office and be like, where are we at? I want to hear a little bit about your plan, how'd you do, what are you doing? Kind of the follow up there. And I think that is critical, I think, to let that go, knowing that it is creating some sort of impediment to the larger team's growth. Absolutely. All of us as leaders and bosses, we've got to kind of, hey, Go, time out. This is important. I really need you to follow up the person who do they really want to grow? Do they not want to grow? I do see it very plain and cut and dry and I see it as they just don't have that interest. And there are people, I think where you see, they're like, I'm happy doing what I'm doing. I really have no interest in doing anything different. I love my job, I love what I do and I'm like, hey, I think that's great. Ultimately, what I think about here is, you know, me, I think about larger, right? Is there really a team out there that is not learning and growing? Are there jobs that don't change? Maybe there are and I'm certain that there are. I don't want to say maybe there are. I'm certain that there are. But I do think in general, I don't know. For me it's like I think jobs change, I think software changes, I think process changes, I think how things are worked changes technology. And so I do think at the end of the day requires people to upskill. It just does. And you can't keep doing things that you were doing two years ago the same way you've got to make that movement. What it comes down to, and I know I said this just 2 seconds ago, but I think ultimately what it comes down to is as a leader who's leading this entire team, have you set the stage for hey, we continuously grow? Yeah, right.

14:30 - As you hire people, in the very beginning, as you take on the team, like first conversation is this is the.

14:37 - Team we have here. This is what we believe in. We believe in growth or we believe in change, or we believe in continuous improvement. And I think that is critical. Like you got to lay that out at the very, very beginning so that there's no kind of, hey, this is not what I bought into, I didn't sign up for this. And now all of a sudden you're telling me I got to change my job. What was that about?

15:00 - And I think that one person that doesn't necessarily want to grow or they're happy doing what they're doing and it's okay for the organization, it's okay for the team because we need those skills and we just need somebody that is just going to crank it out day after day on the same things. It works for a while, but I think there's a time if you have a team that continuously grows, that person starts to feel left behind, right? Because as the team grows and starts to do different things, then even those skills that were working a couple of years ago, those start to show us, but we don't need those skills anymore. Now we need these skills. And I think it can be really hard for that person if it's a long period of time, 10, 15, 20 years.

15:45 - Now, here's my question, because we've kind of gone off, we took a little bit of a right turn. So did we answer the question? Do you follow up to follow up or not to follow up? That is the question for me. I don't like to follow up. I like to see what people are going to do. I absolutely think it depends on level in the organization. I think there are some factors you want to take into account. Is it the culture of your team? What are you expecting? But generally speaking, they're not going to follow up. Neither am I. Oh, that is wild.

16:15 - I'm, like, shocked.

16:18 - Are you shocked?

16:19 - Yeah. Because you're like a get or done woman. You're like, I'm going to get this done. I'm going to muscle this to the ground. So I'm kind of shocked that you're not going to say, hey, where are we at? What are we doing? All of that.

16:30 - I kind of move on, and maybe it's not so cut and dry that it's just one conversation.

16:36 - Right.

16:37 - I don't know that I follow up, but maybe I have another conversation that's like, hey, we're still moving in this direction. Right, right. Kind of a thing. You're looking for that commitment and that ownership, but generally speaking, yeah, if it's not happening, I move on. I move on to the next person, and I look at, hey, are you interested? Or do you have some energy? Or what do you think about this? And I look at kind of the next person.

17:01 - Yeah. And I can see that especially when it's development and growth, when it's task and work that you need, it might look a little bit different.

17:09 - I completely agree.

17:10 - Yeah. Again, I go back to my own agenda. I'm like, I just want you to know that I know that, you know.

17:22 - We should be following up.

17:25 - I want you to know that I'm not just talking to hear myself talk. I wasn't just making that up. Like, I want you to know that.

17:33 - I know. Yeah.

17:34 - It's like a little bit of that.

17:36 - I had some time here, right. I had some skin in the game. And I'm like, Come on, man. Yeah, you got to follow up, too. You got to do your part.

17:43 - Yeah. And then I think it also helps with those performance conversations that come at a certain time of year. If somebody's wanting something different or they're like, hey, where's my next raise? Or where's my next promotion? I'm like, Whoa, let's back up to you have something else to back up to. Like, what did we do? What did I say? What did we ask for? What did you say? And then what happened? You have kind of a story that we can go back to if you're doing the follow up.

18:09 - So I have one more question before we go. So when you catch them in the break room, in the bathroom, kind of wherever you're catching them, do you have people go, yeah, I know. I'm sorry I missed the boat on that. I've been so busy, and I didn't mean for so much time to pass. Are they apologizing to you? What's happening in that moment? I'm just so curious.

18:31 - Yeah, that's typically exactly what happens. I'm like, oh, no big deal. I act like it's no big deal, but that gives me whatever they say, or I've been so busy, right, that's my go in when I go in the meeting, if they ever do set the meeting or when we do have time, I'm like, well, what's been on your plate? Right? Because I want to know, is it something that I did? Was I not clear? Did I not give enough direction? Did I not give them enough? Here are some other things I think you could do or what it looks like. I just want to make sure that I haven't done anything that has led them astray or gotten in the way or put too much on their plate right. Where they can't go do this. Right. So that helps me understand, is it something that I'm doing? Then I kind of go digging in for when I realize it's not me, I fix whatever it is I've done. That's not right. Not done. Well, and when I fixed all that, then we start looking the other direction.

19:31 - And getting real clear about where the breakdown was and why there was no follow up.

19:36 - Yeah, but in answer to your question yeah, it looks like that quite often for you. How does it look?

19:41 - Again. I don't follow up.

19:47 - You just let it be.

19:48 - Yeah, let it be. And I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but really, I don't think that there's a it's a very clear, like, I'm not looking for an apology, and they're not wanting to offer one. So this is like, let's just cut to the chase, right? What have you been doing? What's been going on? What's the delay? Let's talk a little bit about this, because I thought this was important to you. Right. I thought this was something that you were wanting to tackle and what went wrong. No, I don't think I get an apology. It could just be me. Maybe they just like you more.

20:25 - It's not necessarily an apology. It's more of excuses. I kind of like to dig into those excuses.

20:30 - You like to go for the oh, really? Tell me a little bit more about that.

20:34 - Let's talk about what's on your plate.

20:35 - Hey, so what else you got going on? What's going on with you? Are you doing anything fun this weekend?

20:40 - Man, I feel like I already had my fun. I just got back from vacation.

20:46 - I think you still have your cocktail in your drink. What is going on over there?

20:50 - You know how I love those vacations, and I'm just still living on the natural high from one of the best girl trips we've ever taken.

20:57 - Oh, fantastic. You want to talk a little bit about it, where you went. You got to plug the hotel. I would.

21:03 - Maybe they'll give me another free week.

21:04 - Or so.

21:07 - But, yes, I highly recommend gaza blanca preserve in Puerto Vallarta.

21:12 - All right.

21:13 - So good. The fish was good. The room was outstanding. The view was beautiful. The drinks were delicious. The service was incredible. I'm telling you, there is nothing to complain about on that trip, man. And the belly laughs. Deep belly laughs. Oh, my gosh. We laughed until we cried.

21:31 - Good for you. You got a good recharge.

21:33 - Yeah. What do you got going on?

21:35 - Listen, you know me. I always got some new person. I mean, there's always something over in my house, and we got a little bit of a bamboo issue in our yard.

21:47 - Do not feel for you.

21:48 - So instead of taking a vacation time, I do feel for you.

21:51 - Let's open the back up. I'm like, I feel for you.

21:56 - Yeah, most people do. Everybody, when they hear me say bamboo, they're all like they just want to, like they give me the ugly, squishy face. So, yeah, instead of taking a vacation over to Mexico, I get to hang out in my backyard, killing the bamboo, trying to get rid of the bamboo. So that's our big thing. I really don't have anything fun to report anyhow that bamboo.

22:19 - I mean, good luck is all I can tell you. Good luck.

22:22 - We're on a mission, man. Just like you like a challenge. We like a challenge. We're like, we're going to get that bamboo.

22:27 - Yeah.

22:27 - Those of you who are listening, thank you so much for joining us on this episode, talking a little bit about coaching. We appreciate you supporting us, appreciate your interest. If you have any questions, ideas, anything that you would like us to discuss on this, reach out to us. You can catch us on our website.

22:43 - And then don't forget to share this out. Share this with your friends. Share this with any of those leaders that are in your circle that are looking for a little bit of extra something. This extra shadow leadership is for them. Don't forget to connect with us on social media and then hit that subscribe button that'll put us in your feed every week so you can come back again for an extra shot of leadership.

23:02 - And some bamboo.

23:04 - And some bamboo. Man, that is just like, wow. I wonder. So I feel like we're living the same life in different cities because remember, I had the squirrel problem. You had the squirrel problem. I got a bamboo problem.