Wear Uniforms? This One’s for You

0:10 - So I really loved that conversation last week, and we're still in studio. We know when we're going to deploy it, but we want to keep it going. We're not ready to end.

0:18 - I have some other things I want to talk about, and I have some maybe some other questions.

0:21 - So if you're to this podcast, this is Extra Shot of Leadership. Go listen to the previous episode. Go listen to last week's, and you'll know why we're having this conversation.

0:31 - That's good. Yes. This is part two.

0:32 - I know you got more to say. You want to keep that going.

0:35 - Do you see that look on my face?

0:35 - I do.

0:37 - Well, I want to know what else do you consider when you I'm thinking I consider do I dress one level up? Right. For me, there's other things that I consider, like, am I in uniform mode? It may be different pants, but they look the same on top of my pants. Look the same every day. So there was that news anchor that showed up to work every day in the same suit for 365 days. Same suit.

1:07 - This is a male male, right.

1:09 - Wouldn't notice. Right. Nobody noticed. Right. I think he maybe had a different tire or whatever, but nobody noticed.

1:13 - Changed it up, made the tie a little flashy someday. Yeah.

1:16 - But I remember I was working this was probably 810 years ago, I guess, when someone said to me about my wardrobe, right. Everything I wore was black, white, gray, and it's just something in that category. Everything. They're like, you never wear any kind of color or anything. And it really kind of struck me, and it hit me, and I just was thinking, am I in uniform mode where I look the same every day?

1:42 - I like that uniform mode. I've never heard that. And I've been guilty of the uniform mode because it gets comfortable.

1:48 - It gets comfortable.

1:49 - I like those comfy pants that I wear, whatever it is.

1:52 - But could you get them in another color? If you love these black pants, do they sell them in navy? Do they sell them in an emerald green? Do they sell them in beige or whatever?

2:01 - Yeah. Or if it is, you got to change it up a little bit.

2:03 - Or if it is that you love black pants. Right. Okay, cool. But could you get them with a little something different so that it doesn't look like I'm wearing the same pants all week long?

2:12 - Because why does that matter? Why can't I freaking wear my same pants every day? Now you're on my pants, man.

2:22 - Well, that's a good question. Why does that matter? I don't know. I just feel like maybe other people see it as hom. Didn't she wear that yesterday? Didn't she have anything else in her closet? Does she care about the way she looks?

2:37 - Well, it takes me back. It's funny because I remember I was telling one of my girlfriends about this, this has been years ago. And listen, I am one of those people who I can wear a pair of shoes, and it can be the same pair every day of the week. And then there are people who change up their shoes every day, right? And that's just kind of the way I was raised. Even though I have a ton of shoes at home, I don't need to have a new pair of shoes every day. But I remember talking to my girlfriend, and she was mentioning to me how the other women in the office were talking about somebody else. It wasn't me, but somebody else who doesn't she have any other shoes? She's wearing the same pair of shoes every day. And I was reflecting at that moment thinking, oh, my goodness, I need to up my shoe game, right? This goes to me having to go buy shoes today. But it was like, wow, people pay attention to they do. The shoes you're wearing, are they the same every day? Are they different? I don't think this happens for guys. I just cannot believe you think that does.

3:35 - Well, just because I know of a story, I know one story. Listen, I don't know of a bunch of stories, but I know this one story, and it was at another company and this executive VP literally wearing the same pair of shoes every day for years and years and years.

3:51 - So they're worn.

3:52 - They're worn. They are not polished. Because you can buy a good pair of Italian shoes. You can keep those for years and.

3:58 - Years and years polished up, send them.

4:00 - Off to the shoe guy, and he'll make them look brand new and bring them back. They look brand new, right? But it was so bad that the interns were considering taking up a pool to buy the guy some new shoes. This is a VC, and he had his reasoning for why he wore that. But just because you're at that level and that's what you think you can get away with or what you want to do or whatever, I'm like consider what is that saying to all the other people that are below you?

4:34 - So the uniform be mindful of the same pants. I do remember also, I mean, kind of going back on another story, this has been a while, and it was a good friend of mine who made the comment, every Friday you wear the same pants. And I was like, well, I love you, too. Who's noticing my pants on Fridays? But that was a little bit of feedback for me to think about what am I wearing? Because people are paying attention, right or wrong, whether or not we like it right. And I wasn't leading a team at that point, but especially now that I'm leading a team, I have to think about, did I wear that recently? What did it look like? And am I overdoing it? Am I using my uniform on getting my same pants on. Yeah.

5:17 - Well, I'm planning to stay over longer than I thought I would in town and business meetings for next week, and I didn't bring it up close. I have to switch it up somehow. Shopping. Yeah. I don't like just showing up the same thing week after week. But I'm going to go back to your comment about men. Right. That doesn't happen for men in the shoes. But what I do think is one of the big differences between men and women is the cost. The cost of the clothing.

5:45 - You're right.

5:45 - I mean, because guys can be like, they got five different pair of pants. They're all kind of the same, but they're different colors. They got however many shirts, and they're all kind of the same, but they're different colors. Belt, shoes, they're ready to go.

5:55 - No makeup.

5:56 - No makeup, no product.

5:57 - No product.

5:59 - It's evident when my husband and I packed to go on vacation, because you've got, like, five bags, and he's got, like, £55. So in here, he's down to 30, because he just doesn't require all of the extra stuff that I do.

6:12 - You know you love it.

6:13 - I do love it. I think there are sometimes I love it, and sometimes I'm like, why can't it just be easier?

6:20 - I think you're right. I do think you're right that as women, it does cost us a little bit more. I went and got some face cream last night. One was $200. I went with the cheaper one. That was $60. But I was like, Dang. And that's just moisturizer. There's no all the other things that I like to have to make me feel good.

6:39 - Yes. And those are definitely preferences, right? Because there are some good stuff over the counter at CVS Pharmacy or Boots Pharmacy or wherever you want to go find it. They got some good stuff there. And I got a good lady on YouTube. Yeah, we're going way off tangent here, but I just enjoy this conversation. Her YouTube channel, I think it's hot and flashy. Angie okay. And her dad is a chemist, and she goes and tries out products, and she's like, this says vitamin C, but there's not much vitamin C. There's a drop. Yeah, there's a drop. But this over the counter, this is loaded with vitamin C, and so she can tell you what's over the counter that is inexpensive and is effective.

7:14 - I'm always looking for a bargain, something on the cheap. That's my thing. I like it. All right, so what else? Because you wanted to keep this conversation. Yeah, I did. I want to hear a little bit more about any other tips. You said uniform.

7:28 - It is what I'm wearing distracting in some way?

7:31 - Okay.

7:31 - Right? Is it distracting?

7:33 - Are the buttons so tight? Right, I've seen that.

7:38 - Oh, my gosh, yes.

7:40 - And the buttons, like, on that button.

7:42 - Down shirt, like, please stay together, because.

7:46 - That button might catch me in the eye, but yeah. Are the buttons too tight? Is this shirt too tailored?

7:54 - Yes.

7:56 - I don't know what else you had.

7:57 - In mind on that just isn't your tight period. Right. I think the hardest conversation I ever had to have as a leader was to go talk to someone about their clothing right. And how do they want to be viewed. I kind of had to go into all of that because the clothing was just inappropriate for timing. It was more like after five wear.

8:16 - Maybe it was club and wear it tight. Okay.

8:21 - It was tight. So I just kind of had to have that conversation. It's a hard conversation, but I think you need to consider those things. Like, does it fit well? Is it too baggy? Have you just lost 25, £30 and ride? The pants are sagging in the butt. Right.

8:36 - And you're absolutely right. If it's looking too big, that's also distracting. I think that is an excellent point, kimberly, is how you're coming across what you're wearing, is it distracting?

8:48 - That's right.

8:48 - Are people overly focused on, did you see that tight whatever, or did you see that short whatever? All of a sudden, we're no longer focused on and this is all about work. Right. We're no longer focused about the business or what needs to get done. We're now talking about how short the skirt was or how tight or how low or how whatever.

9:07 - Distracting.

9:08 - Distracting. I think that's an excellent excellent. Something else to consider as you're getting dressed in the morning.

9:15 - Yes. Exactly.

9:16 - What else you got?

9:17 - And then the last one is just are you setting a good example? Do you look like the leader? Like, if you were to have you and your team all lined up, right, would they be able to say, this could possibly be the leader, this could possibly be the leader? Or could they line you all up and they're gone, that can't possibly be the leader. And so are you setting a good example? Are you talking to your people about dress? And are you showing up in that manner of, I look like the leader for my team, so that they know what good looks like?

9:45 - Because whether or not we like it or not, people have a vision for what the leader should look like. That's the point there. Right. Whether or not we like it or not, there is an idea of what a leader should be presenting themselves as agreement. It's professional. It's a level of professionalism, and everybody has a different line. Right. We can sit here and debate and dialogue what is professionalism? And your professionalism is not the same as mine. You know what? It doesn't matter, because at the end of the day, you're trying to be looking like a leader to a group of people, and you've got to go with kind of the middle ground.

10:23 - Right.

10:23 - There's extremes on both sides. Sure. And you're trying to find that middle ground. So you're looking the part, right?

10:29 - Because I think if you want your team to show up a certain way, right? You're going to have to set an expectation. You're going to have to model that, right? You're going to have to lead. And I think if you're not, then it is hard for you to go and have the conversation, which is another thing I wanted to talk about, having the conversation.

10:44 - Yeah, because you mentioned you had to have the conversation with somebody who had maybe inappropriate wear because it didn't look office business like, it looked more like, I'm going out tonight. I'm going out, it's Friday, and I'm just going to leave here for work and I'm hitting the bar, right? May have or may not have, it doesn't matter. But you had to have that conversation. So I want to hear, how do you do that?

11:06 - It's not easy. So I went and got some talking points, right? So I talked to my boss, my next level leader. I even talked to HR, like, help give me some things to keep me out of the ditch. What I can and cannot say, should and should not say. They had great talking points. They've been through this a dozen times, hundreds of times probably. And so they know exactly what to say and not to say. And so I just went and got the talking points about just, again, how do they want to be viewed. I knew what their aspirations were. I knew what they wanted to do, but I let them know that I want them to be able to do that too. But I can't put them in that position where other people see them with this type of attire, right? Because that just doesn't model our culture. It doesn't model the way we show up in this department. And so I got to tell you that there was an immediate change. There was an immediate change in the dress. So it was a hard conversation.

11:57 - That's what I want to go back to. Before you tell me how they changed, I'm curious. How do they respond in the situation? Was their defensiveness? Was it like, what are you talking about? Why are you judging me for my clothes?

12:09 - No, none of that. And I would say it was an AHA moment for them. They were like, huh? What? Really? And it was at the end of the conversation, thankful. No one has ever talked to me like this. No one has ever cared enough. Because there was some of that and some of the performance conversation as well. And they're like, nobody has ever done that for me. And so they were appreciative. And then I would say on the back end, it was eye opening for me to see if I will go have those hard conversations. I can have the change that I'm hoping for, typically. And there was immediate change, and I was like, Woohoo. And not only did I notice, but other people that had noticed the other dress are now noticing the different dress.

12:51 - Nice. That's a win, man.

12:54 - Yeah.

12:54 - When it is hard, I think you're bringing this up, and I'm just reflecting on kind of my own experiences. It is freaking hard to have those conversations.

13:04 - Absolutely.

13:05 - Holy cow. And it's very sensitive. But I think as leaders, we have to do that. We have to give some sort of mirror in helping people to see, hey, look, this is how you're coming across, and do you want to come across this way?

13:22 - Yeah, right.

13:23 - That's really the question. It's. Do you want that? And that's a hard reflection activity for the person. For me, I think back about my girlfriend who said, hey, you're wearing the same pants every Friday. And it probably wasn't that way. That's how I heard it, but I was and I had to have some hard reflection of, okay, people are noticing. I got to change it up. And it can be embarrassing, it can be surprising. Not in a good way. That man. I had no idea. And you can have a little bit of act out, well, you know what? I'm going to keep wearing my pants. And, you know, there's nothing good in that.

14:02 - I would agree.

14:02 - There's just really nothing valuable, I think, about being on the other side and somebody having that conversation with me. I know it's hard for that person to have that conversation hard. And to have some sort of negative reaction is just making it that much harder for the person to go, look, I'm truly trying to demonstrate some care for you. I care about you. I care about where you're going in this company or what you're doing. And I just want you to think about this. I'm not telling you you have to change anything. Right. Because I think that's what you were doing. At least that's what I heard.

14:34 - Yes.

14:34 - I'm not telling you you have to change, but I understand you have bigger aspirations, and this may inhibit that.

14:40 - Right. And I think that is if you're a leader that cares about other people's development, you know what they're wanting to go and do, and there is something in the way they show up that is hindering that. I think you kind of have that obligation to go and have the conversation, hard as it may be.

14:57 - And I loved how you said you prepped your preparation. Right. So you talked with your supervisor. You went and talked to HR. Your point about HR has done this a million times. They've got great suggestions, reaching out to your resources so that you do a good job with it. You cared. Right. You took the time to do a good job and sharing that information to that person. Cool.

15:16 - Yeah. So there's one other thing on my mind.

15:18 - I got one other thing too. What else you got?

15:21 - So I think about other jobs that I have been in. Right. Where there was a uniform.

15:25 - Right.

15:26 - Uniform isn't bad. There was a uniform. And you're required to wear that uniform because that's what everybody in those positions wear and because it's safety. Right. And so I'm not talking about those types of situations where there is a uniform that you have to wear, but even your uniform. Because I remember I was always careful that I didn't look like I just climbed out of the laundry basket. And there were many people that I worked with that did. It was literally it had been in the laundry basket for five days.

15:55 - Shake it out. Yeah. Hoping nobody will know.

15:58 - And in that type of clothing, the wrinkles never just fell out throughout the day, they stay. And so is it ripped? Is it torn? And I think that is where the whole hygiene thing comes into play, right? Because you can get in that mode of wearing that uniform day after day after day, but the rest of you has to show up clean and smelling right. And looking right?

16:21 - Yeah. If it's stained the uniform. If it's stained, get a new uniform.

16:26 - If it stained badly. Because I was in an environment where. We get dirty, right? That's good. We get dirty. There was no expectation that you can't have any stains, but there was an expectation that still there comes a point where, you know, like, you're just wearing it for pride, because it says that.

16:43 - You'Re a hard worker. It's been around a while.

16:46 - It had been around a long while. And when it gets to that disheveled book, the company would provide new uniform.

16:53 - Right.

16:54 - Sometimes there was a sense of private, like, do you see how tattered this is? That says, I am a hard worker.

16:59 - I've been out here a long time. Better listen to me. Yeah. All right.

17:03 - So I have five things, all right? Five things when it comes to wearing uniform. Yeah. They're just kind of the rules that I lived by and things that may even be a pet peeve.

17:13 - So somebody wearing a uniform might be listening to this right now.

17:18 - Hopefully. Yeah. So here's my number. One was the wrinkles. Right? Don't look like you just climbed out of the laundry basket. Two is that it should fit well. It should fit well. And you should wear it properly. Not too tight, not even too baggy. If you've lost £40 or whatever, it might be time to go replace those uniforms.

17:36 - All right?

17:37 - But it's just wearing it properly. So however it's supposed to be worn, if it's buttoned up, sleeves rolled down, zipped up, tucked in, whatever it is, wear it properly.

17:47 - Okay.

17:47 - That's my two. Three is replace it. Replace it. When it's worn, when it's tattered, when, you know, it's lived its best life, for example, we would wear uniforms. It was a safety thing. And they would wear thin over the years, which was great, because when it was hot. Then that thin came in really handy. But that wasn't the purpose of the uniform. Right. So they were not serving their purpose for the safety reason. When they repeat them out, they should go kick them out and get some new ones then. This really is a pet peeve thing.

18:22 - All right.

18:22 - The last two are kind of pet peeves.

18:24 - Pet peeves. All right.

18:25 - So when you are in a TM environment, everybody's wearing the same uniform, and you might move locations, right? So you might get a transfer or something, and that uniform at the new location or the new store, right? New store, whatever it is, looks different. The tags are different, the coloring is different, the stripes might be different. Wear the new uniform, because that just says to me, like, you're part of the team. You're in it to win it with them versus, I'm different, I came from somewhere else. I might know something different than you all know. I think it just to me, it sends a message of you all. Yes.

19:01 - Okay. So I'm drawing attention to myself versus becoming part of the team or just integrating. Yeah. Right. A push against being integrated with yes.

19:11 - Especially if you're the leader. If you are the leader, I mean, you've got to say, I'm in it with this team, and I'm here to lead this team. I'm here to be a part of you all. Then I'm a little different.

19:21 - But I really like I'm proud of where I came from. Yes.

19:25 - Great. But you don't have to say it with a uniform.

19:29 - Okay. With it.

19:30 - And then my last one this is being judgy.

19:34 - Judy judgment.

19:35 - A little judgy, but sometimes there is a purpose for the uniform.

19:40 - Okay.

19:40 - All right. And if you're wearing that uniform outside of the purpose, the only way I can explain this is with a story. So we were in an environment where the uniform had a purpose, and then there was an office environment, and there was someone that would wear that uniform day after day after day in the office environment, knowing that they were never going to go to the field. You'd never see them in the field. And so I was just like, Why do you wear that if you don't need it? Because it was for a safety thing. And so for me, it just said, I'm lazy, I'm lazy. I don't want to get dressed. Because they never hit the field with the uniform. And so I think they said, what.

20:28 - If I can't afford street clothes?

20:30 - Oh, come on. That position could afford the street clothes, I can assure you. For me, I think if you're going to wear it when it has its purpose, if you're going to spend the next 20 days in the office, and you never plan to hit the field with that uniform, take it off and wear your office, your professional dress. Listen, this is really judgy, but it's the same thing when at the airport, sometimes I see people in their scrubs.

21:03 - Oh, come on, now. I do.

21:04 - And I'm like, why are you wearing that?

21:07 - They're running to a procedure. They have got a procedure and they are running from one place to the next.

21:16 - I don't know if that's the purpose you get to buy.

21:19 - Maybe they got a procedure on the airplane.

21:20 - Yeah, but I'm like, how don't you just go ahead and wear the stethoscope with that? So, like, you don't see a bikini model wearing a bikini to the airport. I get a little judgy when I see uniforms coverage and things like that.

21:33 - In the airport or in places that you wouldn't expect them to be. Yeah, I got to be honest here. I can throw out the judgy judgy word and kind of say, Kimberly, that's judgy judgy. But I am one to be a little judgy judgy on the workout attire outside of the gym. It just cracks me up. You go to different places. You go to the grocery store, you go to the mall, you go wherever, and you see people with their yoga pants on, and it's like, did you just run over here from the gym? What happened again? I'm right there with you. Judy. Judy.

22:10 - It's a big one for my husband. He'll always mention that when he's like, really? Now, listen. I am guilty. I have left the class, ran into the grocery store, got my grapes and got out of there.

22:20 - Yeah.

22:23 - Is that all you got?

22:24 - Yeah. Is that really what it should look like when you're going shopping for some grapes? Yeah, I got it. I'm with you. I kind of think it's funny, too. I'm like, y'all just got out of a spin class or what?

22:35 - But I can tell you, when I go to the grocery store in my yoga, it looks like I just got out of the spin class. My hair is still all messed up. My face is right.

22:44 - I really am sweaty. Yes.

22:45 - Can you all see this?

22:46 - I'm going to pour some water on me.

22:49 - The same thing with wearing the pajamas at the airport. I'm like, come on. Come on, people.

22:53 - Yeah. Do you even hear me? I'm like, I think we're starting to sound just a smidge on the old side, because what if it's pajama day at work? Who knows? Okay, I know I'm stretching it.

23:12 - I'm trying to be there are exceptions. But there are times I'm like, I don't think that look that only looks right.

23:19 - You like, that don't look right.

23:21 - Don't look right.

23:23 - That's good. My last one, it's off topic, a little off subject here, but I want to go back to that conversation about how for women, it might be a little bit more expensive, because I think about the pocketbook, man. I think about how much am I spending because I've got some responsibilities and where I spend my money. I think we all do. And the one tip that I've heard that has been very helpful for me is find your signature one or two things and spend the money. Go for it, go for it, find it, spend it, get it, hang on to it, take care of it and then use it with everything else. Right. And you can go a little bit lower costs on some things.

24:02 - Yeah, a nice scarf, right? Because scarf, you can get it at TJ Maxx for 999 99 on sale or whatever.

24:09 - But we're not having a conversation of go out and get a whole new wardrobe. This is slowly think about one or two things that ups your game. So you're showing up and people are going hey man, you're looking good over there. Yeah, because I don't know about you, I would much rather have people going OOH, you're looking good, versus what is happening. They are a mess. Capital Me SS. Yeah.

24:33 - Which is someone had a conversation with me. I moved different positions, I'd moved into the corporate office. I was not in the corporate office, I moved in the corporate office and I've been in the corporate office maybe a couple of years and I had a boss that came to me and it's like, hey, can we have a conversation? We had a conversation about the way I was dressing and I didn't realize how other people were seeing and it wasn't so much and what I had on. But it was the other stuff because it was a time in my life where I was getting like two or 3 hours of sleep. I had some major insomnia going on and I was disheveled and I look like I was smoking something. Like there was a drug issue going on and I didn't think anybody could see it. I was exhausted, but I didn't think anybody else could see it and so it was super helpful just to consider those things.

25:14 - So the conversation was hey, you're showing up and you're looking to shovel, you're.

25:18 - Looking disheveled so you got to spend.

25:21 - Some time fixing that. Is that what it was?

25:24 - You need to consider it. You need to consider that other people see that.

25:28 - Right.

25:28 - Perceptions, managing perceptions, all of that. Did I go on a tangent?

25:31 - What were we even talking about before? I liked that. I think that's interesting because at the end of the day, it really is. Leadership is about caring about others and seeing this additional potential that people can have and what are some of the barriers for them getting to this greater potential, right?

25:48 - Yes.

25:48 - And leaders, I think great leaders help people identify those and help overcome those barriers. We all have them. I have my own barriers and I've had people in my life who care about me and who go this might be a barrier for you, you might want to think about overcoming it. And that's what it is. Right? Leaders who care, man, those of you. Who are listening, who do have those leaders who care, who have told you some things that are tough. Oh, man. Because it is hard to say some of that stuff. It is really hard. But they care about you. They want you to do well, and they're in your corner. Right?

26:19 - Yeah.

26:19 - So I love this part, too. I have, too.

26:22 - Don't forget about those. I'm going back to signature pieces. I'm like don't forget about the resale shops. They have great quality. Great quality stuff. Go check it out.

26:31 - Go check out those consignment stores. Wherever you live, get creative. Think about your wardrobe. How are you showing up every day? Those facial expressions, the grooming. I like this. I'm glad that we didn't stop talking.

26:44 - I couldn't. I wasn't ready yet. We tried to keep it at that 30 minutes, but sometimes it was an hour. Yeah.

26:50 - Okay. Thank you all so much for hanging out in this part two of how you show up. We hope you've enjoyed this conversation. We've added a little bit more specifically around leaders and being a leader that cares and sharing with somebody. Hey, look, this might be a barrier you might want to consider. We're not here to tell people what they need to do. We're just here really to help people think about what is my impact and can it be greater? Excellent.

27:16 - I'm going to keep it short, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, and then come back again for an Extra Shot of Leadership.