Most Impactful Development Tool

0:10 - It's. Extra shot of leadership. Welcome back, Kimberly. What's going on?

0:14 - Welcome back. Welcome back. Fired up over here. Fired up again.

0:17 - That's what matters here. As long as we're enjoying this, that's the deal. Leadership is fun.

0:22 - Everything can be fun. It doesn't have to be. So listen, today we're going to talk about leadership.

0:27 - Thank you so much. I need a little bit of fun intertwined in this thing.

0:31 - No, we're going to give you an extra shot. It's going to be something to think about and quick and down and dirty and easy.

0:36 - I want to know what was the best tool. Yes, we are jumping right into ready. I want to know what is the best tool, assessment thing, experience, class, anything that you look back over your career and you're like, that taught me so much. I'm so glad I did it. That was the best. I recommend it to everybody. If I'm on the street corner, I've got a sandwich board over top of me and I say, if you do anything, do this one thing. What is it?

1:08 - I would say the best one for me has been the Hogan assessment. So it's a personality assessment, all right. For me, because it really helped me see how other people see me. And in that assessment, the way they give feedback in this assessment is it's not good or bad. Right there's positives and negatives to both sides of the score that you get. So no score is good or bad. And it just helped you think through what am I doing? Helped me think through what am I doing, what do other people see, what do I want them to see? And what could I do differently? What are some tweaks that I could make? And that assessment, to me, was very eye opening. And I love it and I still look at it, I still think about it or when I'm doing something, because it's like your normal traits. When I'm doing something or I've done something, it's like, what is making me do this this way? There's something in my personality that is coming out right, good or bad. And so it helps you think of, well, how could I do it differently? Or how do I overcome that? Like, for me, one of the things that's in there is Prudence, right? There's this prudence score. And it's, how are you about getting things done? Me. I'm low prudence. I have people on my team that are high Prudence. I love those people because I can tend to be a procrastinator.

2:41 - Okay.

2:41 - But I also work really well under pressure, so I would like to be more like them. And I think the longer I am in my role, the better my Prudence gets. I'm just able to adjust because I know I'm a procrastinator. And so it's kind of fun when I see myself kicking into a higher Prudence, like, yeah, that done that, done that, done that. I was like, oh, man, it feels pretty good. But anyway, I would just say that whole assessment for me was very good.

3:08 - How did you get there? How did you get to doing a personality assessment? I'm sure there's lots of people listening that are like, I've done the MBTI or some other type of assessment. How did you get to deciding, yeah, I want to try this personality assessment. I think it might give me some insight to how I lead others.

3:24 - Yeah, well, I've taken the assessment a few times. I would say probably three times. I think I've taken maybe it's only been twice, but I think it's been three. But it was part of a hiring assessment, and so a company was hiring, and they gave you this assessment, and then they gave me the feedback from the assessment. So you kind of sit down one on one, and someone helps talk you through it to see the positives and the opportunities for you and maybe some things you might want to consider. And then I also did it again as a leader, which was eye opening to come back to that again as a company. They were providing this opportunity, and since then, I've had the opportunity to be Hogan certified so that I can learn how to deliver Hogan feedback. Can I just tell you, remember that failure conversation we had? I haven't completed my training for that.

4:22 - What?

4:23 - Yes. I haven't.

4:25 - What's the delay? What's going on?

4:27 - I'll be frankly honest with you. At the time, my brain did not have the bandwidth for it. It just didn't. It's a lot.

4:36 - It's a lot.

4:36 - And it's important that you do it well, because you could really mess with some people's minds if you don't do it well.

4:43 - Yeah. You got to be accurate.

4:44 - You've got to be accurate. And I think now with all this protein rolling around in my brain, you're.

4:49 - Ready to take it on.

4:50 - I feel like my brain has the capacity for this.

4:54 - Okay, so mentally, you weren't mentally, I was.

4:58 - I was not in the space then.

5:00 - But let's go back to give me one nugget that you were like, here's why I would recommend every single person today listening to take a personality assessment and how it helped you in leading others doesn't have to be the Hogan. Can berkman can be another assessment. Right. But you're, like, hands down, I'm on the side corner, and I'm like, everybody get that personality assessment done, because yes.

5:27 - I think for me, I would say that the Hogan assessment is what helps you see what other people see in you. And knowing that leadership is all about people, it might be important for you to understand that in yourself. And once you understand it and you understand the scales of the Hogan or whatever other assessment it is, you start to see that in your teams. Right. You start to see and it's really great if your team can have the same assessment, right? You start to see where their opportunities and their strengths lie and things like that and why they're doing some of the things that they're doing. So for me, it really opened my mind not just to me, but how my team is operating.

6:12 - All right. Love it. I love that. You know me. I'm a big Hogan fan. I, too, am certified. That honestly has changed my life. I took it back in 2000. I think it was 2003. Now I've taken it twice since, and I interpret that for lots of people. I love the Hogan assessment. So for me, I'm a big believer in all leaders completing some sort of assessment, personality assessment, to understand their drivers and how they respond under stress and pressure. It's just so valuable in understanding how you can tweak your behavior and just really optimize how you're leading others.

6:52 - Yeah. Can I give you an example? This is a really good one. So in the Hogan, there's a scale that's called adjustment, right? And it helps you understand how you receive feedback again, how your team receives feedback. And so that as a leader, as you're communicating with the people, you got to go give some tough feedback. It helps me consider my approach, like, is this the person that needs it sugar coated a little bit, needs it a little bit softer? Or is this the person that I can just go, look, you messed up, and here's the problem? So that type of thing, it really helps you learn how to connect with your people.

7:26 - Love it. And I love the connection to feedback because my number one tool over my whole entire career for how I learn how to lead better, do better, leading people is getting feedback. That's it. That's it for me, down.

7:45 - Just simple.

7:46 - Just simple.

7:47 - So how do you get it? You're waiting for people to give it, or are you going to ask?

7:51 - I am going to ask for it. I am asking for it all the time. All the time. I'm constantly looking for nonverbals. I'm constantly looking for how are they reacting to what I am saying? How are they responding? So when I think about feedback, it is a powerful tool. And early on in my career, I think I saw feedback as a very transactional exchange. How did I do? What did you see? And there was some sort of words that were coming back at me. That's good. There is absolutely very good information that you can get from that. I think what's hard about that one is in order to really start to understand how you can do better, you've got to ask a lot of people feedback, right? And you might be getting honest, not honest. I mean, there's a number of components there, but it's a place to start, I think. Number one, when I think of that transaction, how did I do? And getting some feedback back, getting some words back at you. The number one thing is you start practicing listening. You're starting to really listen to what other people are saying and you're really thinking about how am I responding? What's my reaction to this feedback? When it's positive, how do I react? When it's critical, how do I react? What am I doing in that moment? So that's early on in my career and just how I was working as a team member, feedback to me has always been so powerful. Now when I think about it, I really am listening to and observing what are the facial expressions when I'm talking, what's the posture, who's approaching me versus who's staying away, who's avoiding me? And I'm starting to think a little bit about what am I doing that is creating that. So certainly there's still the whole how did I do? What do you think? And I think now where I'm at in my career, I'm very selective, very selective over who I ask those questions and why am I selective? I'm selective because I want honesty.

10:19 - You know where you can go get honesty.

10:20 - Yeah.

10:21 - And you know who's going to sugarcoat it. Yeah.

10:23 - And especially I'm not high up in the organization that I'm in. I would consider myself mid level management, but I still think there's some sugar coating of things. You're great. Oh my gosh, you're an amazing leader. Hearing that is not very helpful for me. I need to hear what I can hone, what I can tweak, what I can soften or smooth. And so I really am looking for the people who are just going to say, yeah, that was good. However, here's something I would add to that. So I am I have learned how to be very selective and who and when is very important. Sometimes people aren't ready to give you feedback. I think there's a couple of things might catch them off guard and they're.

11:12 - Like, I want to think about this a little bit.

11:14 - That's right. And I'm certainly not trying to do a gotcha type of now tell me now. I want to know right now. People need to think a little bit about it if it's going to be valuable. Right. Something that is actionable, something I can really chew on. So for me, number one tool is feedback.

11:32 - I love that. That's pretty simple. And you don't have to take a test, no assessment.

11:38 - Free and simple. You know me. If I can do free and simple, if I can recommend free and simple, it's every leader has got to ask for feedback and really get good at it. Get good at who you're listening to, how you're listening to people, what you're paying attention to. We all have an impact every single day as leaders. And how are we tuning ourselves to what our impact is? We should know. We should be open to it. We should be listening to that nonstop. At least I am. I sound a little preachy. I'm getting on my soapbox neat, too. I don't want to give that impression, but that's just what's worked for me. It's been very beneficial, and it's how I just continue to hone and continue to get better every day.

12:19 - I like it. I like it simple. I have another question for you about feedback and about tools, because I was having a conversation not too long ago with someone about a 360 assessment. You know what that is, right? Because you give 360 feedback.

12:33 - Yeah, right.

12:35 - And so I don't give 360 feedback. So I couldn't go very deep into this conversation. I just know what it is. I know how it works. And so if someone has a 360 feedback that I would have bet that it's tough for anyone to read their 360 feedback when there's constructive. It's tough, constructive comments in there, no.

12:59 - Matter how prepared you get. I remember doing mine, and it's like, OOH, feels like a punch to the gut.

13:07 - I remember you saying that. I was like, oh, I hope that wasn't my comment.

13:12 - Yeah, no, it is. It's tough.

13:14 - And so knowing that you give 360 feedback, what is it that you help leaders think through or look at when you're giving them feedback, when they have their assessment in front of them?

13:27 - So just for clarification here, you're talking about reviewing an entire assessment with somebody, not just me filling out the assessment for someone. Right. So I now have a completed report. I'm going to sit down with a leader and we're going to go through this report together.

13:42 - Yes.

13:43 - Well, when I'm doing that, the number one thing I am trying to do with a leader is I want to create a balanced picture of their performance. And you will know very, very quickly where the leader is focused. Most people are going to be focused on what do I need to improve? They're going to walk away with, I'm not doing this right, or I didn't do this well, or I need to change this about myself. And my job in that moment is to create some balance. It's to create some well, what are the strengths? Hold on a minute. Right. Hey, I hear you want to start working and attacking these weaknesses or these opportunities. Let's really think about what are you doing well, what are you known for? What are people recognizing that you continue to contribute? And let's talk a little bit about how you can lean in on those instead of just focusing on the negative. And some of us, I'm in that camp where we can see information about us on a piece of paper, and there can be they're great communicators, they do an excellent job of presenting, or they great relationship builders. And then, on the other hand, it's but they're too direct and they're too blunt. They're too sharp with people. They're very abrupt. Kurt I see people I'm in the camp where all I focus on is the too direct, too kurt, too abrupt, and I forget to look at hey, but they're doing these other things. Sometimes I think it's important for the leader who received the report to sit down with someone to do it just it's kind of like a timeout hold on a second. Before we start running towards all those negatives, let's talk about all of these positives. The other thing that I see with people is they'll say, well, they said I'm a good relationship builder, but then, on the other hand, they said I was too direct. How can both be true? And the report, if reviewed well, it will fetter that out. That will come out. And there's one smidgen of a thing. It's like, if you just stop doing this or if you just started doing this, now all of a sudden it's all coming together. You can see where, okay, I am a good relationship builder, but if I just did this one little thing, I would be even better. I'm an example of that. I remember doing my 360, and it was about trust. One of the competencies was about trust, integrity, honesty, that sort of thing. And I know I've talked about it on the podcast before, and it was I wasn't trusted. And I that's a gut punch. I was reeling on that for about five days. I couldn't believe it and was very hard for me to understand. And I was hurt, honestly. It was like, how could I not be trusted? What does that even mean? And I say what I'm going to do, and I do what I'm going to say. For me, it's like trust and honesty is like the foundation of every relationship. So that was really hard for me. Well, there's one little thing I was doing, and I was over committing. I was telling too many people, yes, I'll get it to you by the end of the day. You'll get that by the end of the week. And I wasn't delivering. And all of a sudden, it was very eye opening to me. I was like, oh, my gosh. I was trying to please people, right? Trying to say yes to everything. But that was damaging. Whether or not they could count on me, I didn't make that connection between those two things. And now all of a sudden, I.

17:32 - Was like, that's why you're so hot on deadlines.

17:35 - That's right. That's exactly right.

17:37 - It's Friday. You said Friday. I need to see it on Friday. Yes, and it's not because you need to see it on Friday, but you're holding people accountable because that's so important.

17:45 - That's right. It's their credibility. It's their trust with their customers. And I want people to understand. I want to support you. Right. Anyways, again, tangent, but yes, I think, number one, it's anybody who gets a 360 assessment, they got to sit down with somebody who will help them see the balanced view. Otherwise, I think if you just get your 360 by yourself. You read it all alone. It's almost like these big neon signs are coming at you. You're terrible at this. You're terrible at this and you're terrible at this. And I think people can walk away feeling very defeated. And that's not the intention. Right? It's not the intention. I also think about these 360 assessments. What is the culture of the organization? Are they using this tool as a way to tear people down? Right. Do you think that there are cultures where it's almost a passive approach at, let me kind of knock this person one level down? Or is it a culture where people genuinely want to support people in their development and you know, instantly, you know, by the way the report is written, I can usually see in the report the report is made up of a couple of sections. There's kind of a data section, but there's also a written section. And that written section for me, is the most valuable part of that assessment. And I tell that to the assessee or the person who's completing the assessment, who had the assessment on them. You see it in the written aspects. What is the intention of their audience or the people who are giving them feedback? I will tell you my experience where I have worked almost 100% of the time. People are there to help support their development. And so that, for me, adds additional credibility to the assessment. It's like they're really here. They're in your corner. They didn't have to do this. Sure. They didn't have to spend this much time writing these paragraphs about what they see in you every day and tell you how great you are on these things. But nobody's perfect, so there's always going to be something we can work on. So it's helping people to see that both sides matter. They're both important here.

20:12 - That's pretty cool. I love that. Any other tools that you think that are good for leaders?

20:17 - I think those are great tools. Right. Feedback, personality assessment, 360 assessments. Of course, you have books and classes and all of that, but that's where I would leave it. For me, it's cheap, free and simple feedback.

20:30 - You know, I love those. Yeah. I would just say, as a leader, do something do to assess your leadership.

20:37 - Yeah.

20:37 - Do something to bitch market against.

20:39 - Yeah. You've got to constantly grow and evolve. If you're expecting that of your team to get better every day, as a leader, you should be doing the same thing. Those of you who are listening, what's your favorite tool over the last five years? What have you done that's really pushed you into a new area of leadership? What has expanded your view? What has honed your skill set? If you haven't done anything, reach out, let us know. Maybe we'll recommend something directly for you.

21:06 - Thanks so much for listening. Don't forget to share this podcast with your leadership friends. Don't forget to subscribe. That'll put us in your feed every week so you can come back again for an extra shot of leadership.