Leadership Presence: What is it and Why You Should Think About It

0:10 - Welcome back to extra shot of leadership. Welcome back, Kimberly K. How are you doing over there?

0:16 - Loving life, man.

0:18 - I like these new microphones.

0:19 - Do you like it?

0:20 - Yes, too.

0:21 - I hear it.

0:22 - Whoa, whoa.

0:23 - We crisp and clear.

0:24 - I'm mean, we should have picked these up sooner.

0:27 - Listen, it's all good. It's all good. You can't just start with the best stuff. You got to know whether you're going to stick with it or not.

0:34 - I mean, just hearing you in my ears, Kimberly, I am like, yes, it's a whole new experience for me and I hope it's a whole new experience for our listeners, hopefully. What are we talking about today? What you got on your mind? You got anything on your mind?

0:47 - What I have on my mind is the text that you sent me yesterday.

0:51 - And you've been thinking a little bit about it. I have.

0:53 - I couldn't help but think about it.

0:55 - All right, well, where do you want to go with it? I know I want to talk a little bit about leadership presence.

1:00 - Yes, leadership presence. I think my question for you oh, gosh, I have so many questions. One is, why did this come up for you? Right? Where is this coming from? So did it just pop into your brain? Did you see it on LinkedIn? What is about that? And then I think we just got to talk about what is it?

1:19 - I'm sitting here going, how did it come to me? I'm learning all about how you get ideas. When do you get your best ideas? Do you know? Do you ever think about, man, that was the best idea? Do you remember where you were or what you were doing when you got the best idea?

1:39 - I think there are times, like, when I'm working out alone, I get some really good ideas and it may be it's just because your brain is firing. I don't know, there may be something to that. But when I'm especially, like, if I'm doing something mundane, like a treadmill, things start firing, like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. These bright ideas just start coming. And I used to keep a pen on my treadmill at home because a pen and paper because things would come so quickly. But there's other times you're having a conversation with someone outside and you're on your way home and you meet them in the parking lot and then you're like, that's interesting, and that's just a good idea.

2:15 - So it's great. You're right in line. That's exactly what I'm learning right now. I'm doing a coaching program right now and I'm learning a little bit about how to coach. But in part of that has been a little bit about the brain and how the brain works. And what I recently learned is oftentimes our good ideas come to us when we're doing those mundane things, just like you said, and most people are going to report out that they get the best ideas when they're in the shower. So for me, it's like you're not really thinking about what you're doing. Your brain is just kind of resting. Honestly, there's a little bit of, like it's called the default network mode. Okay.

2:53 - DMN I'm not thinking I'm washing my toes.

2:55 - That's right.

2:56 - I'm washing my ankles. It just happens.

2:58 - Default mode network. Sorry. DMN yes, that's right. You're not thinking about driving or I'm turning or I'm at the stoplight. It's just kind of almost habitual. So your brain goes into this other part, and it's dreaming, it's considering things. It's when you're unfocused on the task at hand that your brain goes to this default mode network. Anyways, that's where my head was at yesterday while I was driving. All of that to say, yeah, I was just driving a line. I was like, you know what? I wonder what leadership presence looks like, and I wonder what Kim thinks about that. And I wonder if we could use that as an episode, because I think people want to have leadership presence. I think there's an expectation of people having leadership presence, but I don't know if we define it. I don't talk about it very much when I'm talking to my team or you have to demonstrate leadership presence. I don't think I've ever said those words to other people.

4:01 - No, I would say I've not heard that from you. And you asked another question in the text about it was something about is it different from levels, or are there just leadership levels, or is leadership levels and leadership presence different?

4:20 - Yeah, I was always thinking about it as executive leadership presence or executive presence. And so as I was driving home yesterday, it was a little bit more like, well, does it have to have the word executive on there? Is it only for people who are at executive levels that they have to demonstrate this quote unquote, leadership presence, or can anybody demonstrate leadership presence, and should they be thinking about it? So that's where it came from.

4:49 - You're in your whatever you call that mode.

4:50 - My DMN your default mode. My default mode. And I was just driving along, and it popped into my head.

4:56 - Whammo. And just like that, we're going to have an episode.

4:58 - Here we go. So have you thought about defining it? Have you thought about what it means to you?

5:04 - I've thought about kind of what it looks like, what I've seen it look like. I can think about some good examples of it. We just had one yesterday, a good example of it. And you'll be shocked to know it was you.

5:17 - I will be shocked to know it.

5:18 - Was me, but what is it? I think leader let's see if I can make it simple. Leadership presence, to me, is a leader knowing when he needs to add something to an organization. Right. Or needs to remove something from an organization. So I've heard this, like, a leader needs to know if they need to add energy to the room or remove energy from the room. And so I feel like the leadership presence helps with that. If they know how to do it well, so they're able to continue to help people drive in a certain direction. Right. They can add enough energy to get people to want to be motivated to continue the fight or continue to do whatever it is, or if they need to help an organization change direction, they have some leadership presence where they come in, and they do some things to help the organization understand it, absorb it. What does it look like? Keep going.

6:24 - Wow. My head is a totally different space from that.

6:28 - Really?

6:29 - Yeah. That's really interesting to hear you say that out loud. It's like, whoa. The way you're explaining it here is the leader is assessing a situation and determining, what do I need to do? What do I need to add, what do I need to remove, if anything, if anything, if I can. Right. As the leader, that is not where my head was at.

6:53 - That's the good thing about being two separate humans. I'm like, what is it to you?

6:57 - I was totally thinking visually, I'm thinking about the way the leader dresses, the way the leader carries themselves, the way and where the leader sits in a room, how they're making eye contact. So I'm thinking it's the nonverbals that a leader engages in, along with kind of the threads, man, what the leader is showing up wearing and how they're looking.

7:26 - I think that's a piece of it, but I think that it's like you've got to determine what is needed before you go in with where are you going to sit and how are you going to sit and what are you planning to wear, depending on what it is your job is you're going to do in that room.

7:40 - Yeah. That's really interesting. So it's a combo of both.

7:45 - Yeah. You can't have one without the other. You can't come in and be the hammer and be all kicked back in your seat with your feet up on the desk if your job that day is to come in and be the hammer.

7:56 - All right, so I'm not looking for accolades or pats on the back, but walk us through this scenario yesterday. Right. We can call the person Sally.

8:06 - Yes.

8:06 - What does Sally do?

8:08 - Well, old Mustang Sally came into a meeting yesterday.

8:12 - Great song.

8:13 - And it was a project meeting, and Sally was very familiar with this project because we've been running it for about two years. But Sally had not been in one of these project meetings in probably about a year and a half. And so we were having an important meeting. It's kind of a realignment meeting because we're making some changes to this project. And so the project team is all in there, and then I can't do sal anymore. So you come in you just let the meeting run as it was supposed to run. And there was a point where you kind of stopped the meeting and said, I want to give some things that are kind of rolling around in my head and kind of what I think about, because we do report this project up to you.

8:57 - Right.

8:57 - And at the end, you're kind of like the bless it, let it go person. And so I think it was helpful in that moment in that meeting to have leadership presence, because we're making some changes, and things are changing, and you have some kind of outside information that you're bringing in, and you're helping everybody see that. And I just feel like, would they have absorbed it as well if we would have just said, look, this is what we're doing here's, what we're doing it, or whatever it coming from you. It's like nobody questions it. Nobody questions it. I may question it. We're still going to have a conversation about it, but they are just like, oh, okay, that's good to know. And I think it was helpful to get everybody on the same page in that meeting, so nobody's questioning, does Pepper know about this or where is she at with this? Or is this going to change later on? It just was a very clear message of what we're here to do and what we need to accomplish.

9:56 - All right, so kind of boiling it down. The leader came in. I came in, and there was some listening going on. I'm processing what are we doing right now, what's happening in the room, who's in the room, and who needs to know what? And I'm filling in whatever gaps I think are existing. Right. I'm trying to make sure that everybody is connected in terms of the value of the Widget and understanding the purpose of the Widget and how they all contribute to it. So I can see that I can see that connection that you've made between, hey, the leader is adding something to this. Right. They're taking a little bit of a temperature in the room and assessing, what do I need to say, if anything, and when is the right time?

10:45 - Yeah, I would say your body language, your tone, where you sat in the. Room, I've matched all of that. I have never sat in that spot. But it worked for you yesterday. It's kind of like the person at the head of the table gets the check. That's the person, you know, that's kind of in charge. So that worked for you yesterday. But, yeah, I would say that was leadership presence that was needed at that moment and the right thing, because as a leader, you probably have more insight to where the organization is shifting or going or what they're focusing on. And this may have been a good meeting to reiterate that, if you've already communicated it or communicate it for the first time.

11:29 - Yeah, that's interesting. Because I really did. I thought where I was going to sit when I walked into that room, and I can count the number of times I have sat at the head of the table, and I think that's the first time I've done it, probably in ten years. I just generally don't I usually sit on one side in the middle, and I like that seat. Right. I feel like it's more collaborative. I can see more people, and this time, for whatever reason, I sat at the head, which is funny.

11:59 - Yes.

12:00 - Right? It's funny because you saw that as leadership presence. That's interesting. I'm almost processing that real time. Was it me or was it the seat? Was it a combo of both? The difference of me sitting in that position? Interesting.

12:14 - Listen, I think you could have given the same message from one seat over.

12:17 - Yeah.

12:17 - I don't think it really matters where you sat, but I think it worked for you. Yesterday. It was probably by accident, but it worked for you because everybody else can see you very well from that end. Yeah.

12:27 - All right, so here's my question. On this whole leadership presence, we've defined it right? You've got a definition? I've got a little bit of a definition, and I did not Google it. So those of you who decide to.

12:36 - Go Google, it's not what it is.

12:38 - It's perfectly right to me. People let us know that we're wrong. How do you know if you have leadership presence? So I'm a supervisor. I'm a manager, and I've been enrolled now for about five years. How do you know if you have it or not?

12:58 - Wow. I think for my definition of leadership presence and what I think it is, you probably know by the way you.

13:08 - Walk into a room right there's that.

13:10 - Meeting, nobody was expecting you, and you walk in and everybody's like, she's here. No, there's a certain energy that enters the room when you enter the room, and I think you have to think about what energy do you want to enter the room with you are you coming in with the energy that you want other people to see? Like, I am the hammer, and I am here to hammer you all and tell you what you're not doing right. That's my role. Are you coming in here to be the encourager? Right? Are you coming in with that type of energy? What does it need to be? What do you want it to be? And is your energy matching and your body language isn't matching that? So I'm just thinking about your definition.

13:57 - Yeah, I was thinking about that, too.

13:59 - How do you know if you have it?

14:01 - I mean, to me, very candidly, I think you always look good. I think you always look good.

14:07 - I think you look good.

14:09 - I think you let people know.

14:10 - I do even look in the mirror and like, I'm looking good today.

14:16 - And I think there's other days. Listen, I have been there some days. I look in the mirror and I'm like, what?

14:21 - Hope I don't see anybody today.

14:22 - Yes. It's like, oh, my hair is too frizzy. Or you know what? Oh, my makeup doesn't look great. I think, you know, it's like that whole thing of when you look in the mirror and you ask yourself, are these pants too tight? If you're asking the question, they're probably too tight. It's the same thing if you look in the mirror and you're like, am I looking all right? You're probably not.

14:41 - Yeah.

14:41 - So I do. For me, leadership presence is you're really looking sharp.

14:45 - When you look good, you feel that it brings a certain level of confidence in what I have on.

14:49 - Yes.

14:50 - I am feeling pretty snazzy today with what I have on.

14:53 - Yeah. And I'm not definitely not saying you have to be on it 100% of the time. I think it's more of, you know, when you need to look good and you bring it.

15:05 - Listen, I'm going to challenge it just a little bit.

15:07 - Hit me.

15:08 - I think there are some leaders that know and I think there are some leaders that for whatever reason, they're just a little bit clueless. I think I told you about someone that was in another company and he wore the same shoes for, like year after year after year because that gout really, really bad.

15:27 - Right.

15:28 - Year after year after year. And they were so worn in such a bad place. And this is a VP.

15:34 - In a company and you had higher expectations. Yeah.

15:37 - Well, the interns were telling someone else, this is not our company. Let me just believe we're all clear.

15:44 - Or not our company.

15:45 - The interns were telling someone else that they were going to pull together money I remember this. To buy him some shoes.

15:54 - That's rough.

15:55 - So I'm like when the interns recognize it and you don't. This is a problem.

16:00 - Okay, fair enough.

16:02 - So I think there are some people that may have a little less awareness than what they should have.

16:06 - Yeah. Okay. So I would challenge back and I would say they probably have awareness, but they may not care.

16:13 - That was what I was going to say. Or do they just not care?

16:16 - Yeah.

16:16 - Are they in a position where they. Don't have to care? Yeah. Oh, my gosh, that's terrible.

16:20 - And so that really is kind of the next question is no matter level, should you be thinking about your leadership presence or is there a little bit of it'll come when it comes, or who really cares? Nobody's paying attention. Is that something leaders should be thinking about no matter what level they're in, how they look, but also what they're bringing to the table? Right. What are they injecting? In the room, in the conversation, or what are they removing out of the conversation? Kind of putting both of our definitions together. Should everybody be thinking about that?

16:53 - I think they should. I think a good leader will a good leader will think about that or should be thinking about that. I think the other thing that they should consider is for my definition of how you enter a room, what do you need to do when you're in the room if they're not good at that, if whatever the job is that they're supposed to do, if they're not good at it, should it be done at all? Because I think you can really mess some things up when there is momentum in work or momentum with a group, and what is needed is energy to keep whatever it is moving forward. Maybe with a few little tweaks or we're doing a great job with this, and now we need to focus on this one thing. And if the leader doesn't understand what they need to do at that moment and they come in and suck the life and the energy out of that room, you can just undo a lot of really hard work for people that were focused in the right direction and moving and working. Yeah, I think it was almost like.

18:02 - You got to know. You got to know when to hold them, know when to hold them. You got to know when to walk away. You got to have some level of competence in what is happening in the conversation in order to know what to inject. So you got to have some level of knowledge, deep knowledge, in order to add the right thing or take away the right thing. Is that what you're saying?

18:30 - Yeah, I would say that. And you need to know what the people that it is that you would be addressing, what do they need? And the only way to do that is with more conversation. So let's just say you are a leader, executive level leader, or executive director level, whatever. And there's two levels of supervisors, managers, whatever, two, three, four below you. You need to have some conversation to understand where are these people at and what do they need. And those people that are closer to the workforce would be able to tell you. So if you just waltz in and think, I know what they need, it might not be such a good idea.

19:09 - Man, I love that. To me, that makes me think of two very key things for leadership, and it's around building relationships, being good at building relationships, really listening to your people. I think the other thing it makes me think about is having some level of humility you don't know at all and walking into the room. This is not to pat myself on the back, right? But the example you gave I took some time to listen yesterday. So is really listening, paying attention to what all is happening in the room and making some sort of decision, do I interject? Do I inject myself into this conversation? And what would that look like? But it's humility.

19:46 - Yeah. And you're not supposed to know, right? That's not your job to know. You're operating at a higher level. You're not supposed to be in the weeds. But there is somebody that is supposed to be in the weeds that would know.

19:57 - So just kind of moving this on a little bit. Do you think that there's a difference between men and women on this whole leadership presence thing?

20:09 - Is there a difference?

20:11 - And let me give you more I'll give you more as you think about it, I follow a bunch of people on LinkedIn, and there's this one guy that I started following him more recently, and he's a high level leader of a company, and he does quite a bit of posting. And oftentimes when he's posting, it's, like, in T shirts. And he's got a hat on like a ball cap. And I do wonder what his message would sound like if he looked different. And I mean if he just dressed differently, if his presentation was different, would he be taken I don't want to say more seriously, but yeah. What type of credibility would he build almost instantly by the way he looked? It sounds so superficial. That's why I'm hesitating a little bit because I'm like we've talked about dressing for success and all of that. I think at the end of the day, yes, people really are paying attention to they're paying attention to what they see, the presentation. And that's the first, it's the first impression whether we'd like it or not. So that's what I mean. Do you think that there's a difference between men and women and do you think one gets a buy over the other.

21:28 - Man? So my first gut reaction to is there a difference between women? And there shouldn't be. And I would say the difference really comes in their level of confidence. Like how confident are they in what they know, what they do, what they bring to the table, what they're doing, what they need to do. And so I would say that the way they enter a room and things like that would probably come with the different levels of confidence regardless of male or female. Now if we're talking about leadership presence in the way they dress and a man was to walk in with his ball cap on, right, and still need to be in this specific leader mode that was a professional environment and a woman did that, I think the man would probably get the buy. Like we'd still listen, we'd still acknowledge, like and probably recognize that doesn't look right, but I'm going to let it slide. But if a woman walked in there and did that, they'd be like what in the sam? That's my take on it. But going back to the guy that you said he's wearing a ball cap, I think it depends on the situation of are you trying to be a leader of fitness experts? Like who are you trying to reach.

22:50 - There you go. Who's your target audience? Who's your target audience?

22:53 - If they're like that's the look of your target audience, great. But if that's not the look of the target audience, you might want to reconsider that. Yeah, that's an interesting I would reconsider it.

23:03 - And you even made mention to that about the man and the woman coming into the word you use was the environment. Right. So it's really being thoughtful around who's my target audience? What is the environment? What is the culture? Right. You're really rolling all of those things in together to get a pulse of what should I be looking like?

23:22 - Yeah, that's just kind of the same thing. Like an interview, right? You're going to go interview at a feed store and you're going to wear a three piece business suit. You're probably going to look out of place. Yet if you're going to go to a corporate environment and you decide you're going to wear, I don't know, your.

23:41 - Slacks and your sneakers, like you're going to go play golf, yeah. Might not be a good idea.

23:45 - You might want to reconsider that. So I think it's the same thing for leadership presence. Like, what does the environment call for?

23:52 - I'm with you on that 100%. I think we have to be thoughtful as leaders. What does the environment call for? What is the purpose of my attendance in this meeting? What am I really trying to do? What lever am I trying to pull? Or what am I really trying to do here? I do think that starts with how we carry ourselves as leaders. And I am old school, whatever you want to call me. I think how you dress impacts how you feel. And I know when I dress good, I feel good. It's like you walk into the bathroom and you're like, yiker, you rocking it in today.

24:30 - It's the same way you walk in a room of people, right?

24:33 - Right.

24:33 - You just have a little extra edge.

24:36 - Of confidence, and people notice. I think people notice. And over time, you've really created your own executive or leadership presence. You've created how you show up. But it has to go back to consistency consistently have to be, girl, you looking good today. So I think my last question here is how do I build it? I need one tip. So you guys had a good conversation. Like, what can I go do? I want to be viewed as a leader. I'm on a track. They've identified me as somebody who's going to be a future leader at XYZ Company. Where can I start?

25:18 - I'm going to start on my side of the definition. So what is needed from you with your people? So I think my thing would think about when was the last time you were in, I don't know, a project meeting, a team meeting. You got supervisors and things underneath you. When was the last time you joined a meeting? And this is just one tip. And it's been a while, right? It's been a while. Think about where could you go help? Whether it's motivate people, redirect people, encourage people, whatever that is, find a place that would make sense to insert yourself. But before you go, do your homework.

26:01 - Do your homework.

26:02 - What's needed? What do they need? Are they rocking it out? Do they just need a hey? Thank you all so much. This is a great project. I loved sitting in on your meeting. It sounds like you all are doing an amazing job. Keep going. Or do they need some type of direction or do they need some type of here's why we're doing here's the impact to the organization if we keep doing this. So I would say, do your homework with others that would know what's needed for that meeting.

26:30 - It's a great tip. I really like that. It's very easy. Something that I can execute tomorrow. Really thinking about what are the meetings I am in? What are the meetings I'm not in? And can there be some added value if I attend a meeting that maybe I don't always attend? And I'm going in there for some very specific reason that the team, that project, team, whatever it is a group of people need to hear directly from me. But preparation is key. I think that's fantastic. I like that little tip. I might use that for me on my side of the definition. You know what, I'm simple, simple, simple. And I think at the end of the day, it's get the visuals right, get the hair right, get the clothes right, get the shoes right, and things that have holes, I think you got to get rid of them. I know that that sounds worn and tattered. Yes.

27:25 - Got little pillage going on.

27:27 - No, no pillage, no stains. I mean, this is really, really basic things, but it adds to your credibility as a leader. It shows what you care about and what you don't care about, and you need to care about the way you look. And I think that's where it begins with executive presence. I think the other thing is for me, and again, I think I'm probably a little old school on this. If you're going to an event where maybe it's your company party or some sort of work type event, I think it's important to dress up. Just a smidge. Just a smidge. Not so much that you're sticking out, but definitely not dressing down. Yes, you got to look good. You do. You got to dress up. And so it's like, what is dressing up? We're not going to get into that. I think you need to go ask for some advice and some feedback. I'll give you one example. I had an event for work, and the dress code for the event was black tie. And I was like, is this really black tie? Am I really supposed to? So I did. I started asking around, and I was like, okay, like, lay it on me. Is this really black tie? Is this gown? Is this cocktail? Is this, like, Sunday dress? What am I wearing? What am I doing? And it was like, no, it is gown. I wore a gown. And I was like, thank God I wore gown. I definitely needed to wear a gown because the other thing of it is what I didn't realize is when I went to the event, I was at the front row table. So can you imagine if I didn't wear a gown? Everybody at the table was in a gown. So these are very minor things, but you want to be thoughtful about how you're showing up to the day to day or even these big meeting days. Maybe you have meetings with higher level executives and also those kind of ancillary work events.

29:26 - Yeah. And I think as you get promoted, right, you go further up the chain, you need to be asking more questions. I think this is a space where I think men may have a harder time because women wear asking each other all the time, what are you going to wear? What are you going to wear? It's not a normal dude thing, right? What are you going to wear? They're going to be like, are you kidding me? I'm not going to go ask somebody.

29:45 - What they're going to wear. Are your belt in your shoes going to match?

29:50 - However, you just need a trusted partner. You need somebody that can tell you the truth that will not lead you astray as to what you need to wear.

30:01 - It's like jeans are not appropriate or shorts are not appropriate, or you got to stick with the slacks even though it's this type of an event.

30:09 - What kind of heel do you need on that shoe? It's important.

30:13 - 100%. All right. I've enjoyed this conversation. This is something that just popped up into my head yesterday, and just like.

30:20 - That, it's an episode on Extra Shot of Leadership.

30:22 - All right, so as we wrap it up, my last question for everybody is what you're wearing right now what you're going to wear tomorrow? And are you just looking a little bit better than everybody else? And is it going to have any sort of impact on your leadership style?

30:37 - Hey, then don't forget to share this podcast with your leadership circle with your leadership friends. And if you really thought it was just as good as we did, go ahead and give us those five stars on Apple podcast spotify. Wherever you listen, then don't forget to come back again for an extra shot of leadership.