Inclusive Leadership: Is This the Style for You?

0:10 - Welcome back to Extra Shadow leadership. How you doing over there, Kimberly?

0:14 - Excellent. I just came from the gym and I'm fired up.

0:17 - You're ready to go?

0:18 - Once again, I'm fired up.

0:20 - Feeling good.

0:20 - Amazing.

0:21 - Those are those guns?

0:23 - These guns are coming right along. Along.

0:25 - They're coming along.

0:26 - Yeah. I have one little issue, though.

0:27 - What is it?

0:28 - Well, I think I pulled my hammy.

0:30 - Oh, boy.

0:33 - I'm pretty sure I pulled my hammy. There's just no denying something's wrong back there.

0:36 - How are you getting along?

0:37 - It's all good. It's all good. I'm not focused on that. I'm going to be like, you can heal down there while I get felt up here.

0:44 - All right.

0:45 - Yeah.

0:45 - So it's all about the top.

0:46 - It's all about the top now. When the waist up.

0:48 - All right?

0:49 - Yeah.

0:49 - Hey, man, better to have some guns than no guns.

0:52 - Yeah. I mean, these biceps, triceps, ABS, they're going to be like, killer awesome. How you doing?

0:59 - I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I got to tell you, I still am digging these microphones, man. Just listening to your voice over here.

1:08 - Whoa, fancy.

1:09 - Sounds good. So today I want to talk a little bit. I'm just jumping right into it.

1:13 - You just go on with let's talk.

1:16 - A little bit about this thing called Inclusive Leadership. This is a term that I have been hearing a lot lately, and I really want to get kind of your thoughts on it.

1:25 - What do you been hearing it at work? I'm like, no, you know what?

1:30 - I was on a panel and we were talking about Inclusive Leadership. All right. And then on LinkedIn, it pops up every now and then and just in my normal emails and things like that that I'm getting from whatever vendors you're just hearing. At least maybe I'm an anomaly at this.

1:48 - It's like once you see it, you just keep seeing it.

1:50 - That it's confirmation bias. That's exactly what it is. It's like, why do I keep hearing this thing? Inclusive Leadership?

1:57 - Interesting. I know what you're talking about because it's like the same thing happened a couple of years ago with the word agility. And once I heard it, I was like, what's? Agility. And I swear, after that, it's just like agility was everywhere. Yeah.

2:08 - The agile leader.

2:09 - Yes.

2:10 - How many different kinds of leader topics do we have to have? But I'm still in the vein of let's talk a little bit about this Inclusive Leadership. Okay. Curious about your thoughts as to what it is.

2:23 - It's kind of like agility. The word agility. I'm like inclusive leadership. What is that is a fancy word for something else?

2:30 - It's a good question.

2:32 - Can I just rent just for a little bit and get up on my soapbox?

2:35 - Let's do it.

2:36 - It just irritates me when you just have to give a fancy new word to something that's already been in existence and everybody understands it from a different word.

2:46 - So your perspective here is this already exists. We've just slapped a new label on.

2:52 - Maybe because I don't know what it is. And if I find out it's the same thing as something else, it's just really going to irritate. It like agility to me. It's flexibility.

3:00 - Yeah, sure.

3:00 - Just a fancy word for flexibility. I'm like, So why can't we just stick with flexibility?

3:04 - Those agile leaders out there listening right now, they're like, kind of I'm going to give her why do we have.

3:09 - To give it a new word? I'm like, what is this? Because this is really the first I'm kind of hearing of it, but I.

3:18 - Will say it's funny. You mentioned that I was in a meeting the other day, and I was with this as a senior person, and they made the comment, and it kind of made me laugh inside. But they did make a similar comment that you just made, and his comment was, I don't really pay attention to much of the leadership stuff out there because he's like, it's really all the same. It's just repackaged and it's pretty in line with what you just said. And I don't know, I kind of sat back and I thought, you know what? I wonder if there's something to this, right? What is this whole thing of labeling different things in different ways when it really all, at the end of the day, means the exact same thing? So I don't know. Okay, so let's just start with what.

4:05 - Is what is it? Because I'm going to need you to define it because I don't know.

4:10 - Well, while you were on your soapbox, I decided to pull it up. I decided to pull it up on Harvard Business Review. I thought maybe that might give us a good kind of good go at what this was and basically what it looks like. It says, inclusive leadership is emerging as a unique and critical capability, helping organizations adapt diverse customers, markets, ideas, and talent. And it goes on to identify six traits of an inclusive leader.

4:41 - Okay.

4:42 - And I'm going to give you those traits. I think what I would boil this down to is these are people who are very good at including others. I mean, that's just a very simple, simplistic way of thinking about it, right? Inclusive.

4:57 - Okay.

4:58 - Throw that together with leadership, it's like I'm a leader and I'm including others in whatever I do. So I'm being very thoughtful in how I include others. People feel included when they're part of my team. So let's talk a little bit about these signatures. Are you with me or are you like, this is bonus.

5:15 - Yeah, listen, my brain is firing over here. I'm like, okay, but why wouldn't you include people? You can't do it by yourself.

5:25 - I'm seeing the direction you're going. Yeah, I like this direction. All right, so let's talk a little bit about these traits. And maybe I should have a more specific definition. HBR didn't really necessarily give me one. But, yeah, that's how I think about it. Inclusive leadership is you are very thoughtful around the people. You are very thoughtful about the people around you.

5:49 - Okay.

5:50 - And you want to make sure you're creating an environment where everybody feels included. So that's how I would boil it down. Now, I'm sure people would say you can't use the same word in the definition.

6:07 - So yeah, because my brain can go in many different directions. So is it like when I'm including people, I'm including a diverse group of people. I'm including different people from different thought processes, different backgrounds, different strengths, different weaknesses, I guess, because you can really open this up like a cauliflower and get really big with it, or you can just think about it pretty simply.

6:38 - Yeah, I think it really is related to I think you said the word diversity, so it is around creating that level of diversity on teams. But when I'm reading some of the things here, as we're talking, it's like customers, the market, your talent, and thinking more holistically about what you're working on with who and how you're working on it and ensuring you have a diverse group of people. So I'm thinking here I'm just kind of looking at a couple of things here. If there's anything I would add. Yeah, that's really what I would boil it down to. So I like the multiple ways of kind of directions you're going in, I think to have a little more robust conversation. I love that word robust. To have a deeper conversation on this, we got to talk about the qualities I think that will help us.

7:35 - Okay. Right.

7:36 - So it's kind of like, okay, so we got this big ginormous definition. Let's kind of boil it down a little bit. Here are some top qualities of inclusive Leaders. They accept that they're vulnerable and show it.

7:50 - They're transparent.

7:52 - Yeah, I think they're transparent. See, I like this recap way to go over there. You're firing today. They combat old fashioned paternalistic leadership styles.

8:04 - So they're open to change.

8:09 - They're aware of their own biases and challenge their habitual patterns.

8:14 - Self awareness.

8:15 - Oh, nice. I think you're right on that. Yeah. They're self aware. They're excellent communicators I e. They're curious and great listeners.

8:26 - Great, great listeners. That one's pretty basic. I'm like, okay, I'm going with that one. Great communicators. They can ask good questions, and they can listen.

8:34 - They're team players eager to help and do what's best for the team.

8:38 - Yes. So they're not self centered. They're focused on the people.

8:41 - Focused on the people. They understand and adapt to various cultural norms. And when I hear that, I see your brain is rolling around over there. When I hear that, I think that they to me the way that I'm not as pity as you are. You're very kind of short, and I'm like, I'm going to have 500 words for the two words that you might use for me that makes me think that they're very culturally astute. Like, they are very good at scanning their environment. It's kind of like, what are the norms, what are the cultures as part of this team, this organization? And they adapt very quickly. So how would you rephrase that in three words?

9:21 - Yeah, I don't know. What came to mind was they understand the culture and they're a good culture fit, and they understand when their team is fitting and not fitting.

9:32 - This last one I've got here is they're loyal ambassadors of diversity and inclusion.

9:37 - Oh, well, there you go. There's the diversity inclusion part. Yeah, you'd better be. I think, listen, I go back to very simple, but I think there's the leader that wants everybody to be like them and doesn't want anybody to have greater strengths than them because they feel challenged or whatever. They're like, I have to be the top of everything. And then there's the leader that like, listen, I don't know it all, but I need to surround myself with people who do have different strengths and weakness or different strengths than I do to compensate where I'm weak. And that's kind of the way I see that. And so you put yourself in an organization or you create an organization around you that is diverse from many different aspects so that you can have just meaningful conversations and meaningful work that is outside the box and not just status quo. You get everybody looks just like you. You're just going to keep creating the same widgets. Yeah.

10:42 - And I guess for me, when I listen to all of this, right, a good listener, good team player, somebody who adapts, somebody who understands cultural norms or is aware they have their own personal understanding of their own biases awareness, they're driving for diversity and inclusion. I think when I think about this, is this another fancy term for what leadership is? Now, I'm not saying that we're thrown away inclusive leadership and there's no value in that. I just wonder, isn't that what leadership is in general? Isn't leadership about surrounding yourself with people who are different than you? Isn't it about being a team player? Isn't it about self awareness? Isn't it about all those things? So I really wonder, what does that word, inclusive add to leadership? And that's what I think I wanted to come in here and kick around a little bit. I don't know. I think for me, it's like I listen to everything. And at this point, it does kind of feel like it's a term of leadership that we're almost putting some life back into it where we're creating a new definition to make it more interesting. Maybe we're trying to sell books. I don't know. Right?

11:57 - Where does it come from? Why did we do that? I'm almost okay with it. Right? If we boil it down, like for leaders that have been long time in their role and they're able to see that and you hear these words and you're like, oh, well, that's just self awareness, or that's open to change or whatever. It's the same old things. However, if this new word in front of leadership wakes somebody up, gets somebody's attention, gets them fired up, or gets them thinking about something or doing something different or just considering their own leadership, I'm okay with it. I personally don't feel like I need it so much. I'm not saying that I'm just like an amazing leader or I'm perfect or anything. I'm happy to open my mind and listen to new things. And I think if you're a leader that isn't right, willing to open your mind and listen for new thought processes or whatever, you might find yourself in a hole. When you're further on in your career and you've got all these early career people on your team and you don't know how to connect with them or communicate with them or include them or use their values or their strengths or things like that. So I'm okay with it.

13:12 - Yeah, I see that perspective. I will always appreciate your positive approach to things. And I think for me, when I think about inclusive leadership, after we've talked about these traits and the definition and whatnot it's about for me, right, it's two pronged, and I guess it's making sure that you have variety, you have diversity, you have a lot of different experiences, people on the team, around the table, on the project team, whatever it is. But I think the second thing and you said it it's really listening to them and asking having some level of curiosity about their ideas, listening to those ideas, perhaps taking those ideas versus I think sometimes we can see leaders who ask the question and who have already made the decision. And you're like, well, then why the hell are you asking me?

14:05 - That's a courtesy ask.

14:08 - They told me in training I was supposed to ask you guys, but they really didn't tell me I was supposed to listen to you. So I think it is twofold. The listening piece is likely a piece that maybe leaders, it drops off for them, say they're like, I'm supposed to engage, I'm supposed to ask, I'm supposed to talk. And maybe I just talk about myself all the time, right. Or I think really thinking about how do I include this other person in the conversation or in the project and create a sense of, hey, look, you belong here. We want your ideas. Gosh, they're good. Not every idea is great, but hey, look, we do really want you here.

14:49 - Yeah, I think that when I go back to all those attributes, I think you're hitting it kind of on the head for me with the communication attribute above all else. If you've got excellent communication skills as a leader, you're able to not only communicate and ask questions and listen to your team, but you're able to do the same thing around an organization or in a community or in an industry so that you can keep this open mind for the possibility of change as we need it, or that the group needs to change. The work needs to change something. I think if you've got those great communication skills, all of that other stuff starts to kind of fall into place. And when I say communication, I mean the ability to ask good questions, listen, hear everybody, all of that. I think that is, to me is like the key attribute.

15:44 - Let's go back to the very beginning, right? Your soapbox. Just curious. So what do you think you kind of leaned in on? I'm okay if somebody gets something out of this, but just kind of bigger picture. From a holistic view of leadership, do you think that creating these terms inclusive, agile, kind of restating things? I think people recognize that the industry does that. The leadership development industry does that. Do you think that that hinders the credibility of the leadership development industry?

16:22 - I think for some people it does. I think there are people like me that I'm like, oh brother. And it turns us off, right? And it really starts to put like a little damper over on leadership's leadership type thing. Like, oh, my goodness. But then there are other people that are just like hungry for knowledge or they like reading the latest and the greatest and they like these new fancy words and it gets them jazzed up for those people, have at it. And for the people that want to come up with the word have at it. I personally just it just for me, I think you got to consider when you're communicating, what it is. Are you communicating like, this isn't anything new, this is just a new way to think about it? Or here's some things you might want to consider. I don't know. I think it's helpful for some people and not helpful for others.

17:14 - Yeah, it's almost like we are going to emphasize an aspect of leadership with this title. And I agree with you. I think that there are likely many more people out there who are like, oh brother, here we go. What are they going to tell me now? And just like you did, right? We went through those traits and you're like, isn't that just change management or isn't that just self awareness? I think a lot of people have that type of perspective when they hear these different terms and they're really at the root of it all the same. So I think what's important though I'm kind of on the fence here. I really love your comment of maybe you'll learn something, maybe you'll pick up something or maybe with the reframing of this leadership skill or ability, it helps a leader to go, am I doing that? Am I really listening? Am I really a team player? Really including people? Perhaps there's some benefit to it but I definitely am on the camp of, oh my gosh, how many more words are we going to come up with?

18:23 - Yeah. And I think you got to be really careful when you're in. Let's just say you're going to take this conversation to a big group or you're some training class or something like that. You got to be really careful with the audience and be able to boil it down like it isn't something amazing because there's going to be enough people in that audience. If you've got good leaders in the group, they're going to call BS on it. Yeah. They're going to challenge you. And so I think you just have to be willing to, hey, I want to talk about this, but what it really is is this, and just get real. Otherwise you're really going to turn some people off. And I've seen that. I've seen that in large corporations, right? Where you go roll out this soft and fuzzy training to an organization that is not all warm and fuzzy. And they are just like, what is happening?

19:11 - Yeah, they've missed the mark.

19:12 - And then they all tune out. They almost walk out of there like, disgruntled. Because you've come in here to give me a line of BS rather than giving me some giving it to me simple. Yeah.

19:24 - Irritated.

19:25 - Yeah, irritated.

19:26 - They're like, okay, here we go. This is the new flavor of the month on leadership.

19:30 - Yes. And now I've got my mind off in the Bahamas instead of really considering just a few little things about my leadership. Yeah.

19:36 - Boiling it down. There's value in that.

19:40 - It's like practicality.

19:41 - Add all of this fluffy stuff to it. Just boil it down, make it simple. Help people understand how to be a great leader and move on.

19:50 - I love it. You know what I love? I'm like, I'm going to go to LinkedIn and I'm going to find all these snazzy words that people are using, and I'm going to bring them back here and we're going to boil it down.

19:59 - You hear this? This is really what it means, and this is what it looks like.

20:03 - My question is, why do they do it? Is it for influence on social media? Is it because I am a thought leader? Why do they do it?

20:14 - I don't know. I think for me, at the end of the day, I'm cynical.

20:17 - Is it HR who's doing it?

20:20 - I don't think so. I think it's thought leaders out there. Who are they're trying to make a buck, man? I think they write a new book.

20:28 - Yeah.

20:28 - They become a best selling author, and now all of a sudden, they're keynote speakers and they're on the circuit, and it's almost like the 15 minutes of fame thing, right? This idea gets its 15 minutes of fame, and then they move on to the next one. And I think that's where the credibility back to leadership and the value of leaders and thinking about how they lead others. That's where I think we take the hit. Honestly, it's really the same thing.

20:57 - Just repackage.

21:00 - Repackage.

21:01 - Yeah. And I'm telling you, it's not just leadership. I think I see it in many different the other day I was listening to somebody about a new book like The Strength Training Revolution, and it's coming out in 2023. I'm like, Listen, it's about eating protein and about doing some weight training or resistance training. It's not that hard.

21:21 - I love it. I think I just got a new whole new leadership. It's the leadership revolution. Just add revolution to anything.

21:28 - Yeah, right on the back. I love that revolution.

21:32 - I think it's with people drinking at the bar. They go to the bar, they have a couple of glasses of wine, and they're like, oh, that's good word. People are going to love this. So, yes, I think we're turning that cynical. We're going a little cynical, but I.

21:50 - Do think it can be helpful for some people that need something fluffy in their life at the moment.

21:55 - Ouch. What if I'm that person, you just call me fluffy.

21:58 - Well, fluff on with yourself. Everybody's got to have something.

22:05 - Well, what is a level of self awareness? I mean, it really just goes back to that. It's like what speaks to you?

22:10 - Yeah.

22:13 - Go on with your bad self. Let it keep speaking. And if it doesn't, I think that's okay, too. Right. It's really understanding at the root. Who do you want to be as a leader? Do you want to include people or not? I don't think we need to call it inclusive leadership for you to go. I think including people is important. Unless you want to be on an island all by yourself.

22:33 - Doing it all by yourself. Yeah.

22:34 - I don't know any leader who's able to do everything alone. They need their team. Those of you are listening, what are your thoughts? Do you think this Inclusive Leadership thing is new? Is it different from what we've always talked about? And what other types of leadership have you heard out there that you go, Wait a minute. That's something we've already talked about. I learned about that back when I was in college or earlier in my career.

23:02 - Then listen, if you think we are right on point with this, I don't think it's anything new. Go to Spotify, go to Apple, wherever you listen to this podcast, give us five stars on this episode right here. Then don't forget to share this with your other leadership friends. Don't forget to come back again for an extra shot of leadership.