Coaching Conversation with an Employee That Wants a Promotion

0:10 - Welcome back to extra child leadership. Kimberley. All right, we're continuing our what is this called? Our series?

0:19 - Yes, our series of informal catch ups.

0:21 - Is that what we're going to do? That's what we're going to call it's. So we're going to do informal catch ups. This is not those kind of formal close the door. Even the door is open. Right? But the 60 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever it is, these are those quick kind of catch ups and formal coaching that happens as you're walking from one building to the next. Walking wherever you're walking or going, you find a quick few minutes that you might be able to just drop a little coaching nugget somewhere nice. So we're going to role play just like we did in the last episode.

0:53 - I think the role playing is cool. You like that? I like to get my groove back over here. As the employee?

0:59 - As the employee. Okay. So we're going to set that up again. You're the employee, I'm the boss, yes. And this is like we've already had a number of conversations, and you want positive conversations. Positive. All positive conversations are good conversations. You're knocking it out of the park or killing it.

1:19 - Performance conversations, and they always go pretty well.

1:22 - You're doing good. You might little bits and things that you could probably tweak, but for the majority of it, you're doing really good in your role. In this role play, you want the next level job.

1:33 - Okay.

1:34 - And we've had that conversation. You're ready to get promoted? Yes, I am. And you have been asking me, what do I need to do to get to the next level?

1:42 - Okay.

1:42 - And I've expressed a need for you to build relationships and expand your network, because there's a connection between your network and your ability to influence.

1:54 - Okay.

1:55 - So influencing in your role is important, and I have recommended that you go off and build your network, tried to start expanding that a little bit. And this is probably our third conversation at this point, right? There's been a little kind of updates. We've been having this conversation about six months now. Okay. All right, so we see each other in the hallway. We happen to go to the same meeting.

2:18 - Okay.

2:18 - We're walking down the hallway.

2:21 - Hey, I know you saw me in the cafeteria the other day, and I saw you, and I was having lunch with Sally. All right, so listen, I saw you in the cafeteria yesterday, and I know you saw me because you were having lunch with someone, and I was having lunch with someone, and that was me building my relationships. And so I just wanted to let you know that I'm doing that. I'm having those lunches that you recommended that I have or meetings, whatever you want to call them, but I'm doing it.

2:54 - Excellent. You're right. I did catch a quick glimpse of you in the cafeteria, and I thought, man, way to go. That was pretty awesome to see you. I know it's a little tough and it's not your wheelhouse. You don't really like doing that, but I think that you're kind of stretching and you're spending some time with some other people. So how does the lunch go?

3:14 - I think it went all right. Yeah, I think it went all right. It's a little weird, right? Because. I would normally just prefer to go get my lunch and come back to my desk and eat alone, and so it's a little bit outside of my comfort zone. And it was a little weird, I would say, because I had to prep for it because I had some questions written down even on, like, a sheet of paper, because I wasn't even sure what we would talk about, and I didn't want the conversation to go stale.

3:45 - Because there's a fear of kind of dead air. Right. All of a sudden, we don't have anything to talk about.

3:51 - How are we going to spend a whole 45 minutes when we don't even know each other, really? But I thought it was good because they were open to the converse, like having lunch. But I think I just felt like they were like, what do you want? Why are we here? What do you want? And so I felt like that's the part that was weird, because we're talking about their family and my family and kind of what's going on in our world and Covet and all this stuff. And then there comes that lull of weirdness.

4:21 - What now? Right? Yes, I get it. I've been there, I've experienced that, and I continue to work on that for myself. But the question I have for you is, tell me how you pick that person.

4:33 - Well, we worked on something. We were kind of on the same team, but it was a very short lived meeting or whatever, and I remember them in the meeting, and we just kind of hit it off in that meeting. So I thought, well, I just thought.

4:46 - I'll see if they wanted to go to lunch. All right. So out of everybody that you could kind of reach out to and the people that we've talked about in your role and expanding your role and how you might expand your role, was that the best person to choose in your mind? I mean, you've chosen them, so I'm going to assume yes. But I want to hear from you. When you think about your role in wanting to move on and get promoted, could there have been other people and maybe you're currently meeting with other people? I don't know, but kind of share with me a little bit about why you chose that person and how that impacts your next level role.

5:30 - I can't say that it would impact next level role. I thought they were cool, and I thought it'd be fun to have them as a friend at work. Right. I could see us going to the gym together, I don't know, playing pickleball or whatever together. But as to how they are going to impact my work, I don't know.

5:51 - We'll have to see. So when we've talked about this in the past and I think about your desire for more responsibility, more impact in the organization, I want to go back and just ask you your thoughts around the connection between a broader network and a larger role. What in your perspective, is the connection is there a connection between more responsibility, broader role in networking?

6:23 - Well, I guess for me, I think you kind of gave me the last time we talked, you gave that to me and here's how it impacts you. But I can't see that. I just feel like there's got to be other ways. Right? There's got to be other ways. Maybe like the pre it's the work product that I put out and that's if my work product is good enough, why do I just can't still can't see why I need so many relationships and how that impacts me having the next position. I'm not there yet. I don't get it.

6:57 - Yes. All I can do is share from my own experience. And in my own experience, what I have learned through the years is that relationships is critical to additional responsibility in our organization. Right. All I can do is speak to the way this company works. Now, in other companies, it might look different. And I know you've got a history outside of this company and you've got previous roles. I get it. You're coming with different experience. But in this company, relationships are critical. They're essential with how work gets done. Here at this point, are you seeing the connection between a broader responsibility and influence in networking?

7:42 - I do see it. I can see how that next level has relationships and the things that they need to do with those relationships, the things that those relationships help them move their business and spread their business and all of that. I see that. I'm not good at it. I'm not good at it. And so it's weird, and I feel like it does more harm than good because I'm so weird at it.

8:08 - Yeah, it's uncomfortable. You're getting outside of your growth zone.

8:10 - Yes. Right.

8:11 - There's this place that you feel warm and cozy, and then there's this place where it's like, I don't like that. So ultimately you've got to think about, do you want to grow in your responsibility and your influence in the organization and your role in promotion and all of that, or do you want to stay in your comfort zone? And it's your decision. I really appreciate you giving me this little bit of an update on who you're networking with. I would continue to encourage you. Keep going. Keep going and keep updating. Me. We got to walk into this meeting. We've already gone a little long. They're waiting on it.

8:42 - They're looking at us.

8:42 - Yeah.

8:43 - Okay.

8:44 - All right. So we just finished that role play. This one was a kind of going back to the context, right? This is somebody that we'd already, as a boss, I've already engaged with. There was some assignments, some hey, go dos in order to get to the next level. And it's not just I'm going to go have these networking lunches and now wham Obama I'm now promoted. It's not just that. Right. But there's clearly some dialogue that is happening here. This person wants more. We've given them some things to think about. If you're listening to this conversation, this person, Kimberly, had decided to go do her own thing. Right? In my opinion, what I would say here is being somewhat passive aggressive. They are saying, yes, I'm going to go do what you want me to do, but I'm going to do it my way. I'm going to go build a relationship with who I want to. They may not have the perspective they're likely don't have the perspective of the leader. Right. The leader sees influential people in the organization and says, these are the people I need you to go network with. But this person you, Kimberly, has said, yeah, I'm digging my hills and I don't want to do it, and I'm going to go meet this cool person. Right. Because that's what you said. They were cool. I wanted a friend. But that wasn't the purpose of this development opportunity. Right. The purpose was to get you networking at another level. And I love the fact that when we were walking, you took the initiative to update me. Right. Hey, did you see me at lunch?

10:19 - Because I was looking for a pat on the back, and that's not what I got. I got some more go do.

10:27 - But, yeah, you engaged me, and you were like, hey, check it out. I'm doing what you told me to do, which there was a little bit you did.

10:36 - I was like, that's amazing. And you but you did give me some kudos.

10:40 - I did say. Way to go. Because I know that's tough. It's not something that you like to do. But it also in my own mind, when we've had our previous conversations, it wasn't what we committed to.

10:53 - Yes.

10:54 - And so I have to bring that back. Right. And in my question, I'm asking what did we commit to? How did you make that decision? What are you learning from this? Right.

11:05 - That sounds so because you saw me in the cafeteria. You're like, I wonder why she's having lunch with her.

11:09 - Exactly. Why did she choose that person? Because specifically and I didn't have time to go there. We said five to ten minute update here. I didn't have that much time to go there. But you made the comment of when I do these networking lunches, it gets a little weird. I have my questions. I want to be prepared for the lull. When you are networking with purpose. There is no lull. Right. So you chose to go with somebody who is cool or who you wanted to be friends with. There was no purpose in that conversation.

11:43 - I see that.

11:44 - Okay. And so that was one of the reasons why I asked the question, how did you choose that person, which you said, because they were cool, which told me that's why there's a lull in the conversation.

11:53 - Because if you have something in common in business, you're going to be able to keep the conversation going.

11:58 - Correct. There's so much to talk about. What are you working on in your world? What's your highest priorities? Tell me about that. I want to learn more about who you work with. How do you work with them? What's been your toughest challenge? Tell me more. Can you mentor me in this aspect? I'm struggling here with my boss. There's tons you could talk about with that other person. Yes, but because the person you chose, it was for cool factor, you had the low, and I didn't want to kind of in our role play. Right. In my own head, it was like, okay, should I be real clear and say, here's why there was a lull, or should I just allow you to think about that? And I debated. I really did. Even sitting here in the chairs, we're role playing. I was like, do I say something? It almost felt like a little bit of a punch that I didn't need to do. I didn't want to do that because you were so excited. And I wanted you to feel good about that because even though you're not networking with the right group, you're still networking.

12:55 - Sure.

12:56 - You're still challenging yourself to do some things you don't want to do. So maybe that's where we have to start.

13:01 - Yeah. And I think oftentimes, like, when you have employees that come in and you're coaching them, giving them some go do, they're hearing it for the first time. They may need to hear it again. Right. What they got out of that was, I need to go build relationships. But the whole strategic part of the conversation might not have hit home quite yet. And so you're bringing it back and giving them some, hey, let's go back to why you chose that person, which is let's get to the purpose of your building relationships.

13:30 - And I think you're making an excellent point here. And that is it's really kind of twofold in my mind, the leader, the boss, the coach. And I know we all wear these different hats. We can have a whole conversation about that. What are all the hats that we wear? The leader is listening. We said that in the last episode, how important it is to listen. And even though in my first one or two conversations with Kim about this topic, with you about this topic, you agreed and you said, yes, I'm going to go build those. It's scary, right? You're pushing yourself to do something, and I have to listen to that. I have to hear you say, hey, look, this is as far as I can go, and I have to be patient with that. Right. It's not about me. It's about you. So where I see where your comfort zone is. All right, now I'm going to give you another little nudge.

14:17 - Yes.

14:17 - And that's what I'm trying to do, is see where you're at, give you a nudge, and then we're going to have another little update, and we're going to nudge slowly until we get to this place where all of a sudden, you're like, look at all these people. I'm networking this. I'm loving this, or I'm getting comfortable with it, and you're having this huge celebration, and you may not realize I have no idea, but you may not realize that you didn't do what you committed to.

14:47 - Yes.

14:47 - And I don't need to whack you across the face to say, why didn't you do what you commit? There's no value in that. Right. There's no purpose.

14:55 - Yeah. It's kind of letting it's a self discovery. Right? Yeah. There was supposed to be some purpose behind that.

15:01 - Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think, in my opinion, good leaders, good bosses, they allow that self discovery on whatever time frame the employee wants it to be. Right? Now, you've put some pressure on me. I want my next job. I want my next job. I want my next promotion. And I think as a leader, we have to be very clear of it's, not just this one thing, obviously, but we're working up to that. Right. We're continuing to work, which is what I did. That's how you heard me close the conversation. You have to decide what you want more, what you're willing to put in. What are you going to roll up your sleeves and dig in on? Is it the next job, or is it you know what? I really don't like it, and I'm not going to do it.

15:51 - Right. Yeah.

15:51 - And there's not an option. There's not oh, you don't want to do it? Okay. Then we're still going to promote you. No, there's not that option.

15:56 - Yes. And you know what I love is I love the whole where you're kind of leading me down self discovery through these questions. Right. You're coaching by asking questions, and then at the end, it may not be a question, but it's like a profound statement that's like a whammo. And it's where I'm like, I know that the ball is in my court. I know that this is a decision I have to make, and I have to own it if I don't go do it.

16:21 - That is number one. Right. To me, a good coach and a good leader in this space. Right. Our job is to unlock right. Or to help you or our employees become the best that they can be. We believe in you. You can do it. I believe in you. You can do it. But ultimately I can believe that for you. Exactly. I can believe in you all day long. I can cheerlead you all day long. I can support you all day long, but I cannot go do it for you. And you have to decide am I going to go do it? And if I'm not going to do it, go do it. I need to be okay with that. I think that's you're absolutely spot on when you say that. So what else? Anything else you want to add on this conversation? This was an informal catch up that came from a formal conversation. We had a conversation for about an hour. You told me you have some goals in life, you want to get promoted. And I had some conversation with you about what that next role looks like and what I would consider important and essential for you to work on. You caught me up, which I love. Again, that's employee driven. It's showing me that you're thinking about it. Hey, way to go. But then I'm going to challenge you a little bit more in that conversation to think about did you do what you really needed to do or was it something else? Anything else?

17:43 - I don't have anything to add. I thought that was great. I do have another catch up conversation that I want to have. But again, I think this is too long. Right. I think we can bring it back in another episode.

17:52 - All right, so some highlighted questions here or custom takeaways those of you who are listening to this conversation. I didn't engage the employee. The employee engaged me. Kimberly said hey, right. So it really is kind of waiting to see when that employee wants to engage you as that leader. Coach, help me out. Give me some guidance and some feedback. I did not jump in there and I think that is important. That gives me the opportunity to see how invested the employee is. Are they invested or am I pushing this rock? Right? Am I trying to push this thing up the hill? It's not about me. This is about the employee. I wait, I listen, I ask questions, I explore. That's easily done in five to seven minutes.

18:41 - Sure.

18:42 - We hope you have enjoyed this conversation. This is part two. I don't know. We might have a part three.

18:46 - I think we're going to have to have a part three because I got something else on my mind.

18:49 - Part two of our series of informal catch ups. Last week we gave you about a five to seven minute conversation. This week, I think, again, five to seven minute conversation. Go back, listen to how many words I said versus the employee. What was my approach? All of this is about asking good questions back to the employee to think about what is it that they're doing? What is the purpose behind it? How does this connect back to their larger goals then?

19:14 - If you love this podcast, if it was helpful for you and know that it might be helpful for one of those people in your leadership circle, don't forget to share this podcast out. Don't forget to hit subscribe because that'll put us in your feeds every week. And you can come back next week for another episode of Extra Shot of Leadership.