#1 Reason Why Feedback is Painful

0:10 - Welcome back to extra shot of leadership.

0:13 - Hey, Pepper.

0:14 - Kimberly. What is going on over there?

0:15 - It's been a long time.

0:17 - It's been a little bit, hasn't it? Yeah.

0:18 - It's typical, though. It's typical for June, right? We're just we're always busy, busy, busy with work in June, so we got to take a little hiatus.

0:26 - Yeah, it was a good one, but here we are. We're back.

0:29 - We're back, people. We're back.

0:30 - You feeling good?

0:31 - I am.

0:31 - You ready to go?

0:33 - I am. I'm interested in what's on your mind, because today is one of those days where we just pop in, put the headphones on, and like, all right, what do you want to talk about?

0:42 - I liked our episode two episodes ago. It was about development tools. We both answered the question. It was like, what was the best development tool? You.

0:50 - Oh, yeah.

0:51 - And I was talking a little bit about feedback, and so I got some questions about feedback and why was it so painful? And you kind of made this big deal about feedback, and I wanted to dig a little bit deeper into that one.

1:05 - All right, so somebody's asking you, after they heard the episode, what was the big drama? Maybe they just want to know what the drama was.

1:13 - Yeah. You sound like you got a lot of drama going on over there. Pepper is, like, really painful. Come on.

1:19 - I think people just want to know your dirt. That's why. True.

1:23 - That's true. It's not very exciting. I will say that there's not a whole lot of dirt to be told, but I think for me, it's like, what I want to talk about here is the feedback that I'm talking about that is painful or can be painful. I'm not talking about feedback like, hey, these are things that I have heard. You need to smile more okay.

1:46 - When you're delivering feedback.

1:48 - Yeah, I'm not talking about that. I've even gotten the feedback, hey, you might want to smile more on your way to the bathroom because the team thinks you're always upset. Oh, wow.

1:56 - Oh, yeah. I've gotten the same feedback.

1:59 - It's interesting, isn't it? That is an interesting piece of feedback.

2:02 - But I will say that it has helped me throughout the years because I start to think about it, and I'm conscious of it, and I work on it so that I don't look like I'm always mad.

2:11 - Yeah, you're thinking, right. You're processing my thinking face. Yeah. As you're moving from one thing to the other. I'm sorry. Keep going.

2:18 - No, well, I think when I walk through the door in the morning, I'm just like, I'm all business. I'm ready to do business. And so I come with my business face, and I'm thinking, but in meetings, that can really come across as you're not happy about something. Yeah, I've taken that feedback, and I think I've not served you well. It served me well, for sure. I'm not perfect at it, but I definitely am conscientious of it.

2:42 - Yeah. So that's not the feedback that I'm referring to. Right. And I don't even know what I would classify it as. Right. It's not nonverbal feedback. It's just more, in my opinion, surface level feedback. Sure. That's just kind of how I see it or how I think about it. And when I'm thinking about this more painful type of feedback or when I referred to it, it was around this 360 I got this feedback. I couldn't be trusted. I think for me, the reason why I use that word painful is really, really deep down, I felt very misunderstood or very off target. And trust for me is like one of those things. I mean, you've worked with me for a long, long time, and trust is like everything to me.

3:30 - It's a value.

3:31 - It is. It's a big time value. Great word. Right? It is one of my values, and it is a central component of my values. Right. Being able to trust, to extend trust as well as be trusted. And in that 360, it was like, you can't be trusted. That was basically the feedback that I got. Oh, man. And it was just like, oof. Like, I felt it in my core. It was like my values really were being questioned. And I think that's how I interpreted it. But it wasn't just that they were getting questioned. It was what was central to me. I don't even think I really understood what it was and how I either leaned into being trusted or missed the target. Right. And the feedback was good. Right. I was over promising and under delivering.

4:25 - That's where I was like, what in the world? When they said you can't be trusted or people don't trust you or whatever, I'm like, what are they talking about?

4:32 - Yeah, that was really what it was. It was, you over promise and under deliver, man. And I racked my brain on that one. I was like, what does that even mean? I would commit to little things. I'd say, hey, I'll get you that by the end of the day.

4:48 - Yeah.

4:48 - Or, hey, I will provide you whatever that plan, whatever, I'll get it to you by Friday. And then I wouldn't do it. And it wasn't because I wasn't going to do it, right, or I didn't want to do it. No. It was because I was already committing to 500 other things. Right.

5:08 - You wanted to do it, good intentions. But there's only so many hours in the day.

5:13 - That's right. There's only so much time. And I had a pattern of wanting to be the yes person, say yes to everything. And certain people would make the yes list, others would not make the list by the timeline I had committed. Right. And so, gosh, I walked away from that thinking, I can't believe I can't be trusted. Integrity is the lowest competency that I got rated. Right. Because again, it was a central value to me. And then it kind of takes me even further. I step back further and I think a little bit about how I was raised and the values that my parents raised me with. And I think there was a part of me who was like, I'm letting my parents down, I'm letting myself down. I've been living this sham. I was a very dramatic right, you like this. I think I'm supposed to be trusted and yet I'm not. Yeah. So I think for me the painful piece is gosh, my value just got rocked. And what I thought I was doing well, who knew? Who knew overcommitting and under delivering was a component of trust. So it expanded my definition of what trust was and it also helped me to really dial in. How do other people define trust? Because it's not just my definition. So I think for me it's like when I think back to that, I don't want to sound dramatic or overly rocked because that's certainly not it, but it's just more about yeah, for me I use that word painful because it's a central thing. It's core to who I am and what I thought I was doing all along was being this trusted person and then it's like, oh crap, I'm definitely not doing a good job there. So that's why I use that word. Yeah.

7:01 - So I'm curious that you're wanting to deliver give. Yes, I'll do. That you were thinking of it in terms of being helpful.

7:14 - That's exactly right.

7:15 - Versus in terms of are they going to see me as not trustworthy as I don't deliver on this because I feel like I am in this thing. I'm right there. I am always over promising. There are many things that when something higher comes up, something higher priority comes up that whatever, yes, I said to five minutes ago, yes, it is low priority. I'm like, well for you can forget that that's never going to happen. And so I can see where that is a trust buster. So seeing as I'm in that little window right there, did you do anything different with it?

7:54 - I have learned a lot from that. It's been years and years since I got that feedback and there are two things that I do now. Number one, I am much more realistic about what time frames I commit to. Okay. And even just last night I was texting somebody and I was like, I will get back to you by the end of the night. And I didn't. Right. So I still catch myself over committing. So I think, number one, it's an awareness of when I overcommit don't beat myself up, but I just go, okay, you got to do better next time. Number two, I really dial in on thinking about am I really going to get this done in the time frame that I am thinking I can. So I usually bake in a couple of extra days to say, I believe I can do it in 24 hours, but let's just be honest, life happens. Something's going to come up. I'm probably not going to be able to give me seven days. Right. So I try to bake in some extra days, and then finally, if I'm not going to make the deadline, I send them a note and I say, I cannot make your deadline. I know I promised you by this date. Now I need a little bit more time. Can I need a few more days? Yeah. Can I get a few more days? Nine times out of ten, I can get a few more days. Right. I just have to ask for it, and I have to be upfront about it versus sliding it in late. Right?

9:15 - Yeah.

9:17 - Instead of getting into them on a Friday, I think, oh, Monday I'll do. No, I still email on a Friday, and I say, I just need a few more days. I'll get it to you on Monday at five or whatever day is time.

9:26 - Is that's good? I think there's a lot of times because I even feel like I say yes to so many things that I can't even write them all down. I do that. Hey, if you haven't heard from me in three days, can you just ping me and remind me?

9:42 - That's a good strategy.

9:43 - It's probably not a good look, but it's working, especially with my team. Like, if you haven't heard back from me, just ping me or put it at the top of my inbox in the morning, something. And they know, and they're really good about pinging me for things that I overcommit to.

9:58 - Yeah. And that's probably the next thing to explore. It's like, what is it about us that we want to overcommit? We want to say yes to everything. And I agree with you. You made a comment earlier about the helpfulness. There was something about us that we like to be helpful, we like to help people, and in that we want to help everybody.

10:21 - So my question now then is, so you've kind of figured out some ways to give you longer time frames or help you deal with all the yeses that you're saying. Have you curbed your appetite for saying.

10:35 - Yes, I have, yes. I've gotten a lot better about not over committing in general. Right. Just overall really thinking about, okay, is that something I should do, somebody else should do? And some of this for me, it's funny, now we're going into a completely different space here, but something for me on this has really been around accepting help for things on my list. And I think before, I'm definitely not completely cured of this, but it was kind of like, no, I've committed, I got to do it. I can do it all. I am going to do it. All right. And now, more recently, probably within the last two to three, four years, there's a little bit more of, no, I need some help. Can somebody help me do this? Can somebody help take this part or take this component or can you help this person who's asking me for help? So I think there has been a shift for me mentally around, you know, what? If I commit to this, I want to commit to it, number one, because I want to help everybody, but if I do that, this is going to put at risk my other relationships that I've already committed to. So, yeah, I would say more recently, I've gotten a lot better about not saying yes to everything. It's hard. It's hard to just sit there and nod and go, sounds like you need some help.

12:06 - You should google that. Yeah, I find it very hard.

12:12 - Yeah. And especially when you know you can help, but at the same time, it's like, otherwise I'm spread too thin. Right. I'm not going to give my best to the people who I've already committed to.

12:26 - Yeah, that's where you start to under deliver because you're spread too thin that's right. Versus being able to deliver on some things really well.

12:34 - Yeah. The quality of work goes down, my focus goes down. Just everything goes down. And again, we're like another tangent. I can talk about this all day long. Just how good you show up every day impacts the quality of your work. Right. I'm really honing into this piece for myself, and that is taking the right breaks at the right time. They don't have to be long, but just little bitty breaks and getting those in throughout the day so that my brain is re energized. I'm paying attention to a lot of the information that's out there around how much better you are focused cognitively when you take those little breaks.

13:13 - I completely agree. It's taken years to figure that out. My husband, and I bet he's told me that 100 times, but when you start to do it and then you don't do it, you really start to see how I can't even focus, I can't even think. I don't have any creativity today. It's because it's just go, go, it's too much.

13:33 - It's too much. Your brain, I mean, I literally am like that emoji where there's like the steam coming out of the ears. And it's not steam because I'm mad. It's just too much stuff. Right. It's all piling.

13:44 - PSB valve going off.

13:46 - You got it, girl. You got it. So, yeah, just going back around feedback for me, when I say painful, it's around that stuff that really cuts to my values, who I am and who I want to be when I grow up or how I want people to perceive me.

14:01 - Yeah. Don't you think that's an area where you can really start to resist?

14:06 - Absolutely.

14:07 - You can really be like, you have no idea what you're talking about.

14:10 - Gosh, that's such a great point. Right? It's like, these are my values. My values are better than your values. I understand my values better than you understand my value. Oh, gosh, what a great point. That's absolutely. I think the time that it's the easiest to resist or to go, wait a minute. You know, and it could be really.

14:29 - A danger zone for you because someone has seen something and taken the time to give tough, deep feedback, which they know is going to be tough. But they're willing to do this because they want to see you do something better or they think you need it.

14:47 - Yeah.

14:48 - And you're like, no, you have no idea what you're talking about.

14:51 - It's a danger zone, big time. And really, to me, when I think about that, that danger zone are those nonverbals that we don't even know we're doing in the moment when that feedback comes. Right? The shaky chin. Not literally, but yes, that's right. There's something that we do anyone does.

15:15 - Nobody likes hearing, especially when you're successful. Let's just say when you're really successful and you're like, I've gotten this far without all that.

15:24 - I ain't changing anything.

15:25 - Not changing anything. Yeah, that's tough.

15:27 - What do they know? That's what I like to say.

15:30 - All right, so what advice then do you have for people that have just gotten some really tough feedback?

15:35 - Well, do it my way, because I know, but I think you got to sit with it, right? I think you really got to think about it and reflect. Be honest. We say those words. Be honest, man. And it's easy, so easy to deflect and to say they're wrong, and I didn't mean it that way, and you're misinterpreting it. I think all of that is so easy to do. So really being honest with yourself and saying, okay, is it possible that I depth one? Is it possible? Right? So you got to sit with it, you got to reflect, and you got to be honest about whether or not there's a possibility. I like your point. Right? Somebody's taken the effort to think about you think about what you can improve on. There's probably something there, right? Probably some truth to it. Where there's smoke, there's fire. That's right. I think so. Number one is sit with it on the opposite end it's. Don't sit with it too long. Move on. Yeah, like, figure out what you're going to do different. Some sort of little minor Tweak enhancement. You're kind of just moving the dial, like just a 0.5. Right? One little thing different.

16:51 - Or if it's important, if you're going to move the dial because you can really see it keeping you from getting where you want to go, or if you're like, no, I plan to stay right here where I'm at. All right, well, then dump it and move on.

17:04 - That's right. Don't give it any more effort, any more time, any more energy. But there is a sweet spot for sure, right? You don't want to go, oh, my gosh, this feedback, right? It's so painful. And stay there for yeah.

17:18 - And keep scratching the exactly.

17:19 - Like, get over it. Figure out what you're going to do. Take some action. So give yourself some time to process whatever that is. Right. Everybody's a little bit different, but do take action. Look, I think that's huge. When you get some feedback, even if it cuts to the core and does all of those things that you feel misunderstood or misinterpreted, you got to take action. Right? That's what people are expecting. That's why they give you feedback. They're like, I've given you feedback. I now expect you to do something as a result versus just keep doing the exact same thing. Sure.

17:50 - Depending on where it's coming from, there may be consequences should you not decide to do something about it.

17:55 - True. Absolutely. So when thinking about feedback, yes, there is some processing of kind of more of that superficial feedback, more of the feedback that's really cutting to some values, and you're going to have some level of a response, and really thinking about what your response is and how you manage all of that is very, very important. And it may impact your performance overall. Or it could be, hey, this is not just impacting your performance, but it's got to get fixed before you continue in your current role. I love this conversation. Feedback for me again, it goes back to our episode two episodes ago, where it's all about, what are those tools that we've used from a development perspective? This one, for me, can cut right to our core, our values, who we are. So really thinking about how do I respond in the moment? What is the stuff that stops me dead in my tracks? Awesome. For every single person and leader to consider.

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